1,500 pts Chaos Space Marines (using Dark Mechanicus models)

[miteyheroes]

So, my models are pictured in this thread: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=7987
Thus far they've been pretending to be Space Wolves, with a mix of Grey Hunters and Long Fangs. I'm currently building a Nightbringer conversion and some assault praetorians- once they're done, I'd like to try out CSM.

My store mainly plays 1,500pts.

HQ [270 pts]
Avatar of the Machine-God: 140 pts
1 Daemon Prince w/Wings, Mark of Khorne

Techno-Magi Lord: 130 pts
1 Chaos Lord w/ Mark of Khorne, Pair of Lightning Claws

TROOPS [1031 pts]
Assault Maniple: 289 pts
9 Khorne Berserkers w/ Skull Champion, Power Fist
Chaos Rhino w/ Dozer Blade, Daemonic Possession

Defender Maniple: 350 pts
10 Plague Marines w/ 2 Meltaguns, Plague Champion, Power Fist
Chaos Rhino w/ Dozer Blade, Daemonic Possession

Defender Maniple: 392 pts
14 Plague Marines w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Plague Champion, Power Fist

HEAVY SUPPORT [195 pts]
Support Maniple: 195 pts
7 Chaos Havocs w/ 4 Heavy Bolters, Aspiring Champion, Power Weapon

Alternatively I have the models for 5 more Berserkers, and lots more Plague Marines & Havocs, including different special & heavy weapons. I could also turn the Plague Marines into basic CSMs/Thousand Sons/Noise Marines, and the Lord is magnetic so he could become a Sorceror.

Thoughts? Ideas? What would you change? I've been playing the army thus far as a very Long Fang-centric shooty force, I'd like to try getting up close & being more dynamic.

[40kJay]

I don't see much synergy in this force, the Assault units run up and assault and just leave the Plague Marines behind. As much as I can see this working, there's something holding me back from attempting to run a list like this. I would suggest dropping the Havocs and Dozer blades and giving your Beserkers a Land Raider, so that they and the Lord can get up in the enemy's grill supported by your Daemon Prince. They form a spearhead for the slower parts of your army to advance and support.

Other than that it seems like a solid list, it's always easy with Chaos as most of the units are very powerful on their own so no other complaints there, keep it up! 40kJay.

[miteyheroes]

True about the synergy. I'm basically picturing the Havocs camping in terrain in my deployment zone; the huge Plaguemarine squad holding an objective and refusing to budge; whilst the two rhino squads, lord and daemonprince go mess people up in combat. Whether that's all together or in two or three groups will largely depend on what the enemy's units look like...

A land raider would be a big improvement, I agree. Sadly I don't have one yet. I do have plans to make one in the future, just haven't got there yet!

[jumai]

Ok, well, my thoughts run thusly...

First up, your Chaos Lord choice doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Since he lacks Eternal Warrior and can't lose IC status, you need to be able to play around opposing powerfists if you're going to use him. But you're using him to beef up your Berserker squad, which is going to head directly for whatever's in front of them, and probably won't need the help. So I don't think these points are well spent.

Also, you have 50 points sunk into Rhino upgrades. The thing is with just 2 Rhinos on the board, the chances of your opponent blowing up any particular transport before it's able to use those upgrades at all is extremely high, and when you cash in it's not awesome enough to make up for that. A third Rhino would be cheaper than upgrading the 2 you have, and would help them more just by spreading the pressure around.
Even if you chose to ignore this advice, at least trade Daemonic Possession down to Extra Armour... you can afford to miss a turn of shooting that combi-bolter.

If you remove the Lord and strip the two Rhinos down to stock, you have exactly enough points for a 5 man Berserker squad with a fist and a Rhino. Since 8 man Berserker squads are traditional (old fluff, and to avoid being shot at by not doing 1-hit-KO charges), I'd then recommend moving one of the 9 into the new squad, and probably finding the 42 points to field 2 squads of 8. The second Berserker squad more than replaces the close-combat killy the Lord was providing, the third transport more than replaces the Rhino upgrades, and I don't see a downside.


Moving on... I don't understand the 14-man Plague squad. 400 points is way, way too much to spend on a squad of home objective campers, shooting 24'-when-stationary means they're forced to try to keep up with transports and fliers if they want to do a job, and 14 dudes is just unweildly on the tabletop... trying to get everyone close enough/in cover/out of the way must be a nightmare. You're investing almost as many points here as people spend on their Thunderwolf Cavalry or Land Raider Assault Termies. Why do you run this?
As for what they should be... it's sort of wide open.


It's really worth giving your Havocs and icon of chaos glory. They're too expensive to let run away. However, as much as I love Havocs, they cost way way too much to use... compare your squad to a similar set of Long Fangs and you'll see what I mean (7 marines, 4 HB, 1 PW = 195pt vs 6 marines + razorback, 5 HB + 1 TL-HB, 1 PW, fire control, ATSKNF, 170pt). If you do insist on running them, I probably wouldn't bother with the champion.

Since I'm recommending you re-work your heavy support anyway, now's a good time to bring up the fact that you have no way of dealing with armour from more than 12" away. You should invest in something with long range punch so your opponent's tanks don't have the run of the table. Obliterators are the default choice and would be fun to represent with Mechanicus models. The AC turret + las sponsons predator is better than it gets credit for too. Or at a minimum, take a 3 man Terminator squad with 3 combi-meltas and a chainfist, deep strike them near something annoying, and blow up whatever you can before they die.

[miteyheroes]

Yep, can see what you're saying here. I'll drop the lord.

Sadly I don't a 3rd Rhino yet, don't have the pieces to build one, and have got the cash at the moment to get one. I agree that a 3rd transport (whether that's a Rhino or a Land Raider) will be a good investment, when I get the chance.

I'm definitely dropping Possession down to Extra Armour, but I'll probably keep Extra Armour. I want to have a chance of getting to move them! The dozer blades need to stay as the table I play most on is a very terrain-ridden cityfight board. And because I modelled the things on.

Will be toning down my huge plague squad of death. Everyone's been telling me that. And using those points (plus the ones from dropping the lord) to making my Berserkers into two slightly smaller squads seems a good plan.

Hmm, obliterators would indeed be fun. I could make them using the WFB Ogre box I've got lying around + lots of armour and guns and stuff... Yes. Obliterators are in. Will get converting!

Another option could be Chosen. I have models that could stand in for them well. I could run a small Chosen squad as outflanking tank hunters?

[jumai]

Chosen loaded out with Meltaguns and sent to Outflank is one of their more respected uses. The Termicide squad is more efficient and easier to aim,though. You can have 3 deep-striking combi weapon terminators for 105 points, but its hard to set up a half-ways-respectable Chosen squad without going in for 180+, and they have to show up from a table edge.

If you're limited to 2 Rhinos, outflanking Chosen become a lot worse.

For your list, take Obliterators over either. They're the only one you can deploy as long range fire support, which your list lacks entirely. But remember you can also Deep Strike them if it turns out to be a better idea, so you don't lose the other option (the twin-linked close range weapons make them better at this than it might look at first glance). As a side note, they would also be the only source of blast markers or templates in your army. You don't have Lash to really abuse plasma cannons with, but if you like having friends that's probably ok.