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Hatsgames
07-14-2010, 10:26 AM
Yikes!

This is a real piece of work ladies and gentlemen...

I think that bretonnian magic lances are super-good (as in better than before)

The magic weapons section states that unless noted otherwise all magic weapons are considered to be hand weapons.

Brettonian lances have the lance special rule...but don't exactly state that they are not hand weapons.

I know, I know...but before I get the flaming death i probably deserve hear me out...

We have all found a few magic weapons that have rules attached to them (the bold text single entry words reffering to rules in places that are usually in other books than the magic item referring to it)

The brets book is so old that it still uses this archaic convention.

That means...Q-pro that the bret lances are handweapons wit hthe lance special rule.

Thats fine, dandy, and cool right?!? Well...
When the brets hit on the charge their magic lances usually punch a decent sized hole into anything resembling models opposing them. In subsequent rounds they used to lose the bonuses from the lances and would swing as a strength of 4. (remember we're talking heroes and lords)

Now the lance keeps its static strngth bonus and magic imbewments, but the character has to replace the lance with a hand weapon in subsequent rounds of combat.

Note earlier that I said that magic items are hand weapons.

That would seem to state that bretonnians with magic lances would stab a bunch of joes, put their lance down...realise that since its a magic weapon that can only choose it instead of any other gear that they may have, and pick it up to stab you again because its also a hand weapon.

Herm...confusing.

Tear it up boys and girls!

Thanks All!

addamsfamily36
07-14-2010, 03:13 PM
erm can you define "magic lances"

Don't lance's come under the new term of "special weapons" in the new Rulebook.

That being the case, I'm not sure what you do, as i believe you must always use your "special weapon" if you have one.

Also lance bonuses are singular are they not? as in they only last first round the bonuses i mean, so in subsequent rounds they would count as long pointy lance at basic strength?


I would check my rulebook, but iv'e lent it to my mate for a few days.

Essayons
07-14-2010, 06:55 PM
Your conclusion is correct, but you're taking the long way 'round here.

There is a statement in the text immediately before the magic item list in the Army Book that says something to the effect that magic lances are used in subsequent rounds of combat...even after the first. I just ran across this last night, but it's in there. I see nothing in the FAQ that changes this.

So it seems that a knight with a magic lance (I think there are only two or three) uses it to full effect on the charge (+2 Str and whatever magic bonuses) and then uses it on subsequent turns of combat. I would argue that you lose the +2 Str bonus on subsequent rounds of combat, but still maintain any other non-charge dependent rules AND still be counted as swinging a magic weapon for all of the nasties that are only harmed by magic attacks.

Essayons.

Hatsgames
07-14-2010, 09:08 PM
I guess it all depends on how much wieght the bold text (Lance) in the Bret magic item list has.

Lances in the new rulebook do not lose their strength bonus after the first round anymore...thus my only real personal gripe about the FAQ's laxity on the subject.

I wonder if this was an intended case in which a model with a magic weapon should be able to put it to (Or in fact would normally have to.)

Thanks for the effort so far everyone!

Essayons
07-14-2010, 09:14 PM
Hats, are you sure lances don't lose their +2 Str? I think it refers to "on the charge" or "charging units" or something like that.

I don't have my book handy, but I'd be surprised if you still get the +2 on subsequent rounds. That'd be a hell of a sea change.

E.

Hatsgames
07-14-2010, 09:20 PM
Ran and got my book at the minute...

lance is a +2

only usable in a charging like situation.

does not seem to lose the strength.

when you get your book chek me on it pg90

Essayons
07-15-2010, 01:27 AM
Well...it seems we have something very interesting here...

Bretonnia Army Book on page 60:

"A character armed with a magic lance will always use it (including in subsequent combat rounds)."

BRB on page 90:

"A lance is only used in a turn in which the wielder charged into combat."

Since the Army Book rule supersedes the BRB rule, you use the magic lance in all combat rounds...its +2 Str bonus and all.

Good catch my friend.

I'll be using all three magic lances as much as possible.

***Edit***

OK, I got a little trigger happy here. Each of the magic lance entries does say that the +2 Str bonus only "on the charge." Some of the effects carry over to subsequent rounds and some don't. Too good to be true turned out to be too good to be true.

Essayons.

Hatsgames
07-15-2010, 06:01 AM
If the brets book states it, then it must be true.

So be it, they keep their magic abilities, but lose their +2 strength.

I will hunt down thew brets book to verify

Thank you!

Bard of Twilight
07-15-2010, 06:01 AM
Lances in the new rulebook do not lose their strength bonus after the first round anymore...

Really? Ihadn't noticed that before...So we are talking about str7 Blood Knights???:eek:

Essayons
07-15-2010, 04:52 PM
No. See BRB on page 90:

"A lance is only used in a turn in which the wielder charged into combat."

The discussion was whether Bretonnian knights using magic lances (they continue to use them in subsequent combat rounds) still have the +2 Str in those subsequent rounds. They do not.

This discussion has no impact on other races.

Essayons.