My noob attempt at an Eldar "bug" (Scorp/Spider) themed list...

[Kuhlbert]

1st disclaimer... I'm new to Eldar. Been lurking for a while, trying to get a feel for some things...
2nd disclaimer... I prefer themed/fluff armies over competitive (but if I can give a good fight, so much the better).

So with the introduction of the Night Spinner as an officially allowed vehicle (as opposed to a Forgeworld toy), I thought it would be fun to make a list that was "bug" themed: namely Striking Scorpions and Warp Spiders. I googled the idea, and found a few older attempts - but most avoided the Night Spinner because it wasn't codex... This is my attempt to build such a list at 2000 points. One of the things I did, however, is use two Battleforce boxes - because they're good price wise, and I need some troops

HQ - Autarch (125)
PW, FG, Mandi, WJG

HQ - Farseer (158)
Spear, RoWard, RoWit, SS, Doom, Fortune

Elite - Striking Scorpions (212)
9xScorpions, 1xExarch w/Claw, SS, Stalk

Elite - Striking Scorpions (202)
9xScorpions, 1xExarch w/BBlade, SS, Stalk

Troops - Dire Avengers (195)
5xAvengers, Wave Serpent w/TL-BL

Troops - Dire Avengers (195)
5xAvengers, Wave Serpent w/TL-BL

Troops - Guardians (95)
10xGuardians, 1xPlatform w/Scatter

Troops - Guardians (95)
10xGuardians, 1xPlatform w/Scatter

Fast Attack - Warp Spiders (174)
5xSpiders, 1xExarch w/DualSpin, Wdr

Fast Attack - Warp Spiders (174)
5xSpiders, 1xExarch w/SpinRifle, Wdr

Heavy Support - War Walker Squadron (140)
2xWar Walkers w/2xEML

Heavy Support - Night Spinner (115)

Heavy Support - Night Spinner (115)

Total: 1995

So the Exarch joins the warp spider unit w/o the spinneret rifle. The farseer the claw scorpion unit. Depending on the opposition, I have several infiltrate and/or outflank options. Every unit can handle troops and light armor (str 6+ shooting in all units except the non-farseer scorpion unit - and they have a biting blade which is likely to be str 6-8) - and I have a fusion gun, singing spear, two bright lances and 4 EMLs for heavier stuff. There are 4 scoring units, 2 are mobile. And then there is the fun that could be (depending on the rolls) the Night Spinners. Most units (all but war walkers -although there are two in the squadron) are paired for redundancy.

It appears there are 14 KP. At the army comes in at around $500 retail, so it's not a horrible 2000 point army to start with (the battleforces help there).

So, thoughts? In keeping with the "bug" theme, any changes you would suggest? A list like this will never be "competitive" - but is there a way to make it better without compromising the style? One idea I played with was trying to find the points to replace the farseer with Eldrad; it would give another power weapon, another power, plus the redeployment which could be big with an army like this. But I'm not sure where I'd get the points, and I shy away from special characters, because I generally like to play my own "guys".

All comments/criticisms welcome (encouraged, even).

[davel]

i can see 1 problem if your scorps infiltrate your farseer can't join them. You may want to drop the spear if he is going to be assaulty.
I'd be tempted to swap guardians for rangers. in cover they are hard to shift. backed up with scorps will make opponents think twice about assulting them. their pinning can add a little more disruption to your night spinners.
Most of your choices are sound.
can't say i like the 5 dire avengers in a serpent but it is effective.
With this army though it goes against usual guardian low BS logic you may want to get some star cannons. you have about 7 low ap guns of which 4 are anti tank and the rest short range. The night spinners rend/ultra pinning helps. But you will find the going hard when the marines player works out that the forrest/ruin/ building he is been cowering in is only slowing him down .He will spread out (bad for spinners) place objectives in open (good luck holding that guardians) place devastators with maximum line of sight ( not cower in building) and other such nastiness I have found prism cannons force opponent in to cover which then slows them down.
starcannons can acheive the same effect. a guide seer can help. rangers have potential low ap shots. Any thing that can force him in to cover where scorps excel is good for you.

hope that helps

Dave l

[Kuhlbert]

Hmmm - I can see where the infiltrate thing is... I read it to mean that the Exarch gives infiltrate to everyone in his unit - if the farseer is in the unit, he gets infiltrate. It's not like scorpions have infiltrate themselves...

But I can see where you might be right. Is there a ruling somewhere, or am I just reaching for straws, and everyone plays it that infiltrate does not pass to an IC (although Autarchs are explicitly forbidden in the text for shadowstalking).

[davel]

on page 21 of eldar codex under exarch powers. they only affect aspect warriors and autarchs. Then later in the scorps section autarchs are banned from the infiltrate power. So I am reading this as a big no to farseers doing it. Can't see it in the faq.

Dave l

[Kuhlbert]

Davel, you're 100% correct on the exarch powers & farseers. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

So here's a followup list, based on some comments here and on other bulletin boards:

HQ - Autarch (125) *** No Change ***
PW, FG, Mandi, WJG

HQ - Farseer (145) *** Lose runes of witnessing and spear ***
RoWard, SS, Doom, Fortune

Elite - Fire Dragons (113) *** New unit ***
5xDragons, 1xExarch with Dragon's Breath and Crack Shot

Elite - Striking Scorpions (212)
9xScorpions, 1xExarch w/Claw, ShadowS, Stalker

Elite - Striking Scorpions (202)
9xScorpions, 1xExarch w/BBlade, ShadowS, Stalker

Troops - Guardians (125) *** Added Warlock ***
10xGuardians, 1xPlatform w/Scatter, 1x Warlock w/Embolden

Troops - Guardians (125) *** Added Warlock ***
10xGuardians, 1xPlatform w/Scatter, 1x Warlock w/Embolden

Troops - Storm Guardians (130) *** Replaces 2xDire Avengers ***
10xStorm Guardians w/2xFusion Gun, 1xWarlock w/Destructor

Fast Attack - Vyper Squadron (65)
1xVyper w/ EML

Fast Attack - Warp Spiders (174)
5xSpiders, 1xExarch w/DualSpin, Wdr

Fast Attack - Warp Spiders (174)
5xSpiders, 1xExarch w/SpinRifle, Wdr

Heavy Support - Falcon (180) *** Replaces War Walkers ***
1xFalcon w/ EML, Spirit Stones, Holo-Fields

Heavy Support - Night Spinner (115)

Heavy Support - Night Spinner (115)

Total: 2000

The Autarch still joins a spider unit. The Farseer joins the Storm Guardians, who stay back and counter-attack/defend the Guardians. The scorpions infiltrate/outflank, the spiders warp around, and the dragons hitch a ride with the falcon. The Vyper is just to add some more weapons. One option would be to lose the vyper, and add more spiders. I can add a spider to each unit and have 21 points left for something (what??). I could also gain a few points by losing the dragon exarch and just going 6x dragons - but I like the addition of the flamer to make the unit a little more versatile. Finally, I could just go with a taxi and downgrade the falcon to a wave serpent - but I'll lose the pulse laser and the holo-fields, and get only 50 points back. Which, thinking about it, could mean adding another Vyper if I do the Dragon Exarch downgrade too... hmmm

So my concerns here are: 1 less troop, and 1 less vehicle. One the plus side, the AT appears better. Three units with fusion weapons, two EMLs, some witchblades/spears, and a pulse laser. The two scatter lasers for AV 10/11. And with holo fields and spirit stones, the falcon is more likely to deliver its cargo.

So, thoughts? Which list is "better" - from both a theme and playability POV? Any other comments/critiques on either versions?

Thanks!

[davel]

i'd be tempted to swap your storm guardians for jet bikes. I can't see a unit of ten making it down the feild on foot. jet bikes with cannon and warlock with spear and destructor can be very flexible. Also spiders and bikes ( can't emphasis this enough) only work well if you remember to jump them back after firing.
if you are intent on using storm guardians then your farseer could help lead them ( though his powers do benefit from embolden) and maybe on home objective in cover. But i have only seen then used with serpents.
Your low on anti tank i'd be tempted to give your falcon star engines. put in reserve ( so it can't be targeted turn one) trust in autarch +1 and star engine on (farseer can't help as fortune happens first). Against tank heavy units this is the unit to take out.

dave l

[DrLove42]

Maybe its just me missing it, but the second list has dropped both the wave serpents. Which means both the bright lances. An eldar army needs a bright lance or 2 to be effective in my opinion, cos without a prism cannon either at range you need a 6 to glance a Landraider/ front armour of a Russ etc.

I agree with Davel. Drop the storms for jetbikes. Maybe drop the Vyper (a single armour 10 open topped will die very quickly especially without any upgrades) and give the Fire Dragons a Waveserpent with Bright Lances. I don't however agree with the Star Engines. Holofields are generally enough to keep it alive. Star Engines just means sacrficing shooting for movement, and with limited anti tank in your army you can't afford that. If worried about its survival keep it off the board and use its long range fire when it comes on cos the Autarch will help it come on earlier. Also you can't fortune a Tank! With 1/3 deployment options (outside battle missions book) bringing reserves on in one of the early turns is a given anyway (Dawn of War brings them in earlier starting off the board). Maybe even consider breaking the scorps up smaller, and put one in the Falcon, giving it infiltrate to flank march it.

Glad the Farseer dropped RunesWitnessing cos they're a bit pointless.

[scadugenga]

Kuhlbert--one thing you're missing in this list is capability (save for the FD) to do anything against AV14.

Crack Shot also only affects the exarch--so is completely wasted on the Dragon's Breath Flamer, which already ignores cover. The most it would do is let you reroll to wound shots. I much prefer a a firepike on the exarch w/tank hunters for real anti-tank capability, but ymmv.

[davel]

You can fortune a tank as scimmer moving fast gets a cover save of 4+.
I run with 5 wraiths in a wave serpent ( they are well painted) with cannons. it usually moves full pelt to where it is needed.
my bright lance serpent carries my blade strom da's if tanks are the problem hang back and shoot. if it is hordes get up close disembark crew.
the falcon dragon problem is that all of your anti tank eggs are in 1 basket and difficult to maximize. stay and shoot dragons do nothing.or loose shooting to get in position.
The dragon thing I don't like as the dragons don't live long after taking out their tank prey and you need 2 or more squads to be truly devistating. This last point would cut down on the bug theme.
Scadugenga makes a good point about crack shot. you do have doom which would achevie the same effect without it.

dave l

[karandras]

I like the theme to your list. Eldar are by far the most versatile army in the game. I actually think I like the original list better than the reworked one (which is really a completely different list!). Fire Dragons are worth their weight in gold and are a useful addition, but not a neccessity.

A few things to consider. Is the Farseer really necessary for the points? RoW are great if you play a lot of armies with psychic offense, but have you considered adding Karandras to the original list as your HQ??? You can free up a few points by dropping the Exarch upgrade powers and even one of the Scorpions from the squad that he is attaching to.

I would also reccommend switching out the EMLs on the Walkers for Scatter Lasers and outflanking them, where they can hit side/rear armour with multiple Str. 6 shots if need be, as opposed to the hit or miss Str. 8 Krak Missles. The Scatter Lasers are also better against infantry and MCs and are less points to boot!

Warlocks with either Embolden or Conceal and a Spear are useful upgrades to the Guardian Defender squads but not a neccessity, if you are using them in a supporting role only. Guardian Storm squads can be effective, but must be in Wave Serpants to do so. I would reccommend 2 Fusion Guns and a Warlock with Destructor and Spear as the ideal build.

Wave Serpants are better than Falcons in my experience since Pulse lost its Lance abillity. I prefer a Serpant with twin-linked Brightlance, Shuriken Cannon upgrade, and Spirit Stone to the Falcon any day of the week.

A lone Vyper is pretty useless. A squadron of two or three with Shuriken Cannon upgrades and either Shuriken Cannon or Scatter Laser can dish out a lot of shots, but I still prefer War Walkers due to their ability to Outflank, their ability to fight in assault, and not being open-topped!

Guardian Jetbikes are arguably the best Troop choice in the 40k Universe. You can never go wrong with them. I run two squads of 6 with 2 Shuriken Cannons each at 152 points a pop in every list I build (although I am a Saim-hann player).

Stick with the first list and just a tweak or two! I know you are going for variety, but I just wouldn't run Scorpions without the Claw. The Str.6 PW is a neccessity. Good luck.

[Fellend]

Theme-wise I prefer the first list. Allthough some rangers would be cool just for modeling/painting. I can see them black with white webbing on crawling around in cover delivering poison.
Also if you could combine firedragon models with warpspider models you could make some pretty awesome "bombadier beetles"

[HarlekissofDeath]

I'm going to have to agree with some of the others and say I like your first list better. Fire Dragons are good, but I think they don't fit with this list very well. Also I second dropping the farseer and picking up Karandras that would really make this list BA.
I also think you should put in rangers or Path finders instead of the defender gaurdians, and instead of a falcon put in a fire prism. take out the lone vyper, and change the WW squad from EML to SL or ShurC's.
On the Striking scorpion exarchs; I like the Biting Balde. You can have a str 8 hit with that, so that can go against armor also.
But I really love the fluff behind this army and I say go with it. Striking scorpions and Warp spiders are some of my favorite units. I think they look cool, and if used properly can do some pretty good stuff.