Do Wood Elves Need A New Army Book???

[Dark_Templar]

Well? Personally I am not 100% sure. They are obviously able to compete as long as they run spam lists, but for the sake of having a book that has a variety of viable options, are we perhaps due for an update in order to be more relevant?

Thoughts?

DT.

[Jack_Hammer]

BIG TIME, im my view the gimmick previously was you had to only fight when it was in your favor and this was generally fueled by the ability to break ranks.

I was a big fan of using cavalry for this purpose, now that you need 3x ranks of 5 period to break ranks that is not really possible due to the high costs or their stuff.

Since the game is no longer about baiting, switching and in general being a sneaky ******* im not sure where the wooded ones fit in, i guess the new game play style will be tons of eternal guard.


In short yeah the wood elves codex is the new beastmen and im sure just they them we will have to wait years before we see a update.


And by that time do i want to pay 50$ or a codex?

[scadugenga]

I'm not necessarily sure they do--there's lots and lots of sneakiness still viable in the WE book.

[mynameisgrax]

I say they definitely do. It's not that they're a bad army in 8th eidtion, but there's no reason that I can see to play them instead of High Elves or Dark Elves. No matter what you're looking for in an army, there isn't anything that the Wood Elves are better at than both the High Elves and Dark Elves are.

[whitestar333]

I'm not necessarily sure they do--there's lots and lots of sneakiness still viable in the WE book.

Examples...? Please? I'm having a hard time justifying the exorbitant points costs in light of armies such as Skaven or Dark Elves. Compare the hydra at 175 points to the treeman at 285 points and weep.

[Kirsten]

[QUOTE=mynameisgrax;92650there isn't anything that the Wood Elves are better at than both the High Elves and Dark Elves are.[/QUOTE]

Not at all, Wood Elf shooting is far superior to both High Elves and Dark Elves. Ten man units of glade guard in two ranks of five are highly maneuverable, and put out plenty of shots. Combine that with glade riders and waywatchers and you can guarantee putting shots wherever you need them, with plenty of hits. Glade riders and warhawk riders make short work of warmachines, and wardancers are now awesome with their high initiative. The option of taking lore of life or beasts is awesome too, throw the wardancers into combat, boost their strength and toughness, and watch the enemies drop like flies. No, they do not especially need a new book. Tomb Kings and Ogre Kingdoms next please, then we shall see.

[scadugenga]

Examples...? Please? I'm having a hard time justifying the exorbitant points costs in light of armies such as Skaven or Dark Elves. Compare the hydra at 175 points to the treeman at 285 points and weep.

What Kirsten said. :)

Not to mention, you can get all kinds of evil out of a WE Alter-Kindred Noble w/the Bow of Loren and magical arrows. (Arcane Bodkin to remove high armor targets, or Starfire arrows to force ld panic checks on low ld blocks of infantry) And yes, you only get one type of magic arrow, I know. ;)

You have Spites that muck up a lot of things,

The Dawnspear that makes your opponents suffer a -1 to hit if you cause even one casualty with it.

There are still narsty combos out there, particularly with tree singing and the ability to close off charge lanes, open them, or even rip apart units with the Evil Dead animated evil tree aspect of the spell.

You just need to think a little less linearly with them in the new edition.

[whitestar333]

I guess I'm just pretty depressed because I have a fully painted and custom modeled tree army, complete with 60 dryads, 10 treekin, and 3 treemen. Melee skirmishers are crappy now, especially since enemies don't auto-break from fear now, and treemen are way too expensive when things like super accurate war machines are to be found everywhere. Treekin got a big buff, sure, but it's a bit depressing that my hordes of dryads are pretty terrible now.

[scadugenga]

I guess I'm just pretty depressed because I have a fully painted and custom modeled tree army, complete with 60 dryads, 10 treekin, and 3 treemen. Melee skirmishers are crappy now, especially since enemies don't auto-break from fear now, and treemen are way too expensive when things like super accurate war machines are to be found everywhere. Treekin got a big buff, sure, but it's a bit depressing that my hordes of dryads are pretty terrible now.

But don't forget they're all forest spirits, so get the ward save.

It's not much against war machines, but it's better than nothing. ;)

[Fueldrop]

a friend of mine fields wood elves, and he's a very good player, but he still has a hard time keeping up with my counts. (though he's getting wise to my tricks... sometimes i think that all wood elves are immune to psychology.) i try not to overpower my list, but he still has to tailor his list to kill me if he want's to stand a chance.

i think that wood elves aren't accessible enough. (ie:you need to be a highly skilled player to make them competitive.)

So yes, i'm all for a new wood elf book.

[quinn]

I think that WEs are definitely in need of a new book. The two things that they did well both got nerfed. Skirmishers are obviously one of them, but the other thing that really hurt them is the change in VPs. The fact that you don't get any points unless you completely destroy a unit, or flee them off the table, makes an army dependent on shooting a lot weaker.
Against some armies they still have a viable build of Treekin and Treemen supported by archer units (for the banners if nothing else) and Life Magic. Against a heavily armored foe (such as my WoC) they really have no chance at all. I used to dread playing them, they just made for an excruciatingly horrible game for me. Chasing them around and rarely catching them, they literally drove me nuts. Now I see an auto-win when I play them.

[Frimbleglim]

Wood Elves Definately need a new army book. It is possible to win with them but it's really hard. This is not because they are a hard army to play the units are just overpriced in 8th edition. Other armies are now pretty much as manuverable as the wood elves. Other armies CAN and frequently DO out-shoot them as very little terrain blocks line of sight (do the calculations for equal points glade guard against empire hand-gunners or dark elf crossbowmen at both long and short range). Skirmishers and fast cavalry are much less powerful than they were before. And of course breaking units is nigh impossible.

Things arn't actualy as bad for you as you may think Whitestar. Dryads are good for their points and very good if you can be fighting in a wood.

[Dimetri1]

They need something. Every time I go up against WE's I consider it an auto win.

[eldargal]

Harry over at Warseer indicates Wood Elves are being worked on.

[addamsfamily36]

I guess I'm just pretty depressed because I have a fully painted and custom modeled tree army, complete with 60 dryads, 10 treekin, and 3 treemen. Melee skirmishers are crappy now, especially since enemies don't auto-break from fear now, and treemen are way too expensive when things like super accurate war machines are to be found everywhere. Treekin got a big buff, sure, but it's a bit depressing that my hordes of dryads are pretty terrible now.

Before you give up on the dryads, A friend of mine (also a massive dryad fan) worked out an extremely sneaky tactic combining woods, dryads and something else.

I shall be seeing him in 2 days, i'll get an exact tactic and unit plan off him and post it here. It might not be amazing, but it sounded interesting.
:D

[Dimetri1]

I look at WE's as an auto win. They are terrible in 8th. Even in 7th I never lost to them, though I did tie once. One of the best games ever, but that will never happen in 8th. Until GW puts out a new book and fixes them they will continue to be lame.

[addamsfamily36]

Ok so i promised a dryad tactic so here it is:

My friend who has a dryad army suggested that you take dryads and just keep them in woods. They become steadfast or something for being in a wood and being a skirmisher, you take unit champions etc etc max out basiclaly.

you move them by moving the wood.

take lore of life and beef the units up.

Now your opponent will have to charge the wood to come to you.

You then take a treeman and treekin, to act as counter forces to any big units, or as flanking units. So basiclaly you deploy your free wood (and hope there is some other woods on the table) deploy your dryads in these units with characters an unit upgrades and just sit there and wait for the enemy to come to you.

Im not explaining the tactic very well, but hopefully someone can see the potential in the idea.

[Frimbleglim]

Ok so i promised a dryad tactic so here it is:

My friend who has a dryad army suggested that you take dryads and just keep them in woods. They become steadfast or something for being in a wood and being a skirmisher, you take unit champions etc etc max out basiclaly.

you move them by moving the wood.

take lore of life and beef the units up.

Now your opponent will have to charge the wood to come to you.

You then take a treeman and treekin, to act as counter forces to any big units, or as flanking units. So basiclaly you deploy your free wood (and hope there is some other woods on the table) deploy your dryads in these units with characters an unit upgrades and just sit there and wait for the enemy to come to you.

Im not explaining the tactic very well, but hopefully someone can see the potential in the idea.

There is only one character other than orion that can join a dryad unit. that is the branchwraith.

[Liazardman]

The biggest issue with WE these days is that they are still a 40k army in a fantasy setting. Skimishers aren't very good anymore. Yes Dryads were great last edition. But this addition being skirmishers means you arent going to be easily able to win combats let alone break units.

The current lists that are performing well are talking the best units in the codex (GG and TK) and running them in spam. I have heard of people running units of 25 GG with a BSB (Razorbanner) and the banner that allows them to always stand and shoot. This unit is usually supported by a level 4, 2 other units of 10+ GG and a couple units of 6-9 treekin.

Most WE units are rather expensive for what they do. Some of the coolest units are completely useless. Unless you go out and buy a completely new army you no longer have a viable WE list, If you don,t want to spam the same units then don't bother playing.

Oh and lastly... Y can the Hero level caster only use the WE Lore (which is garbage btw)

[pgarfunkle]

I'd love to see a new wood elf codex and models in the next year or so as I started playing fantasy last year with Lizardmen and always starting Wood Elves as a secondary army. New rules and models would be a great way to get the army started. :)

[Dyrnwyn]

Yes, WE need a new army book. I can't necesarily say that they need it more badly than Ogres or Tomb Kings, as I don't play those armies and thus don't know how badly 8th has affected them, but Woodies are pretty poorly affected by 8th ed.

Alot of what they did and how the book worked was based around the fiddly bits of Skirmisher rules, wounding and Terrain rules. WE had terrible armor and toughness, mostly keeping their units safe by trying to kill as much of the kill zone as possible. Step up has negated this, so general WE units with low armor but high S and/or multiple attacks are now overcosted. Skirmishers were expected to be able to hide in any shape of wood, and be able to pop out after being treesung around, and able to charge in any direction after thier forest got there. Mandatory Skirmish formation prevents units of any significant size from being able to fit in any forest without hanging over the edges and thus preventing treesinging as transport. If you have a unit small enough to fit, then once it arrives, your opponent knows right where it's going and can move out of the units front arc to prevent a charge. The inability to block LOS and prevent shooting by shifting forests is huge - WE now take penalties for shooting thier bows through forests, while flaming Dwarven cannons and Empire organ guns can pick out and annihilate units through the trees with no trouble.

The loss of some abilities though FAQ's doesn't help either. Waywatchers now pay extra to scout as well as anyone else, and their one unique aspect, they can't even use. The timing of the Wardancers' dance selection being left to the opponent in his turn is ridiculous. WE are still playable, but they've gone from having a lot of viable units and builds to having about two viable builds, and many units going from slightly overcosted to VASTLY overpriced.

In return for a huge nerfing of the army in general, our Treekin got Stomp, our Treeman got Thunderstomp, and... that's kinda it.

Ok so i promised a dryad tactic so here it is:

My friend who has a dryad army suggested that you take dryads and just keep them in woods. They become steadfast or something for being in a wood and being a skirmisher, you take unit champions etc etc max out basiclaly.

you move them by moving the wood.
Problem with this is that you need a BIG wood to fit a unit of Dryads of reasonable size. Otherwise you're looking at a frontage of three or four models. Any model overhanging the forest will prevent Treesinging from moving the woods.


take lore of life and beef the units up.

Now your opponent will have to charge the wood to come to you.
Well, Lore of Life is only available on a Spellweaver, so you've basically locked in your Lord choice. If you're depending on Treesinging , well, you best have a Spellsinger there with the Deepwood Sphere or Calaingor's Staff to move the forest. Add to that that Treesinging is a very piddly spell by 8e standards - a L4 can roll one die to dispel it and stand a very good chance of doing so. even a L2 has a decent chance, unless you're throwing multiple dice at it.



You then take a treeman and treekin, to act as counter forces to any big units, or as flanking units. So basiclaly you deploy your free wood (and hope there is some other woods on the table) deploy your dryads in these units with characters an unit upgrades and just sit there and wait for the enemy to come to you.

Im not explaining the tactic very well, but hopefully someone can see the potential in the idea.
Your free wood barely fits a unit of 8 Dryads. With core being mandatory 25%, you will have 34 other Dryads to put somewhere, assuming that they are your primary core.

'Put Skirmishers in Forests' makes sense on paper, but trying to get all the interlocking elements in this plan off seems like an exercise in futility.


There is only one character other than orion that can join a dryad unit. that is the branchwraith.
Orion can't join units - he's a monster. Drycha however, can. So can Glamourweave and Wild Rider characters, though they will be mounted.