2000 pt BA Aircav

[Sandman2663]

Figured I would share my Aircav list with you.

Keep in mind this is a finesse list and you have to step outside the box and play BA outside your comfort zone.

140 Libby IP, JP
215 Assault x10 Flx2, Sgt-PW
215 Assault x10 Flx2, Sgt-PW
125 Furioso Blood Talon
125 Furioso Blood Talon
80 Landspeeder MMx2
180 Landspeeder x2 TypML, HF
180 Landspeeder x2 TypML, HF
230 Stormraven TLMM, TLPC, HBSS
255 Stormraven TypML,TLLasC, HBSS
255 Stormraven TypML,TLLasC, HBSS

I reserve everything because Air support never arrives on time. Split the squads unless KP, and support the SR's with the squadrons while they deliver the goodies.
I give the Lib Shield and FoD...it is fun to play and devastating to Mech.
I don't lose the SR's near as often as the interwebz says you do, I kill or try to kill what can hurt when I arrive.

Try it out, it is fun.
Go Ironhorse!

[RocketRollRebel]

I do really like the looks of this and it is a nice breath of fresh air instead of razorbacks out the nose.

[Connjurus]

I do really like the looks of this and it is a nice breath of fresh air instead of razorbacks out the nose.

Agreed. I'm going to be making a max Stormraven list once they come out with a kit for them. Can't wait.

[Tynskel]

Curious to why Hv Famers on the Land Speeder Typhoons. You have to get in close to use them, yet, the advantage of the missile launcher is its long range. Wouldn't a Hv Bolter be the better choice?

[Angelofblades]

I don't think it's arealyl strong list. It's got a few problems. 1st off it's very fragile. You don't much armor past AV13, in days where ML's get spammed very often, I don't think the SR will last very long, especially with the lack of EA on them.

In addition, in an attempt to be an alpha strike, the list is soundly defeated by regular anti-drop pod, anti-daemon tactic. Go second and full reserve. You get nothign to shoot at for the first two turns, an end up getting closer, sure you may think this a great thing, you can get the Furioso's unharmed, but that's the trap. A well built mecha list will often want you to do just that. Get you closer to melta range, and you did half the work.

Additionally, you want to go first, and can't afford to go second. Second means, your SR's get blown off the table, and if you try to go reserve, you loose the lascannons early on and your opponent is able to focus fire on 2 AV 13 walkers. 5+ cover save only lasts so long, additionally, your assault squads are bereft of FnP, making them softer targets.

Now if you're thought is to have the dreads ride in the Ravens, that just allows your opponent to focus fire on your assault squads, because you can't split them and put half in the ravens and half on the ground. They have to be deployed to be able to combat squads.

[Porty1119]

Air cav lists are great, but I get the impression that this would play very differently than my IG air cav. I use my aircraft to do most of the heavy lifting, this uses its ground units.

[Connjurus]

I don't think it's arealyl strong list. It's got a few problems. 1st off it's very fragile. You don't much armor past AV13, in days where ML's get spammed very often, I don't think the SR will last very long, especially with the lack of EA on them.

In addition, in an attempt to be an alpha strike, the list is soundly defeated by regular anti-drop pod, anti-daemon tactic. Go second and full reserve. You get nothign to shoot at for the first two turns, an end up getting closer, sure you may think this a great thing, you can get the Furioso's unharmed, but that's the trap. A well built mecha list will often want you to do just that. Get you closer to melta range, and you did half the work.

Additionally, you want to go first, and can't afford to go second. Second means, your SR's get blown off the table, and if you try to go reserve, you loose the lascannons early on and your opponent is able to focus fire on 2 AV 13 walkers. 5+ cover save only lasts so long, additionally, your assault squads are bereft of FnP, making them softer targets.

Now if you're thought is to have the dreads ride in the Ravens, that just allows your opponent to focus fire on your assault squads, because you can't split them and put half in the ravens and half on the ground. They have to be deployed to be able to combat squads.

Read the first part of his post. :) This is definitely a viable list, but it's harder to play than a "standard" Blood Angels LOLRAZRBACK list. His vehicles are fast, and kitted out for different combat roles that, when he uses them together as one cohesive force, will most assuredly reach out and touch someone.

[Tynskel]

I don't think it's arealyl strong list. It's got a few problems. 1st off it's very fragile. You don't much armor past AV13, in days where ML's get spammed very often, I don't think the SR will last very long, especially with the lack of EA on them.

In addition, in an attempt to be an alpha strike, the list is soundly defeated by regular anti-drop pod, anti-daemon tactic. Go second and full reserve. You get nothign to shoot at for the first two turns, an end up getting closer, sure you may think this a great thing, you can get the Furioso's unharmed, but that's the trap. A well built mecha list will often want you to do just that. Get you closer to melta range, and you did half the work.

Additionally, you want to go first, and can't afford to go second. Second means, your SR's get blown off the table, and if you try to go reserve, you loose the lascannons early on and your opponent is able to focus fire on 2 AV 13 walkers. 5+ cover save only lasts so long, additionally, your assault squads are bereft of FnP, making them softer targets.

Now if you're thought is to have the dreads ride in the Ravens, that just allows your opponent to focus fire on your assault squads, because you can't split them and put half in the ravens and half on the ground. They have to be deployed to be able to combat squads.

you are making a lot of assumptions about aircav.

If I were playing AirCav, I would always go second, if possible, and reserve everything in either case, unless of a very special circumstance. Stormravens can move 6 onto the table the turn they come in, and unleash all of their firepower. 4 Blood Strikes Missiles, a twin-linked Lascannon, and a 2 Typhoon Missiles is nasty business to be on the receiving end. Next turn you can Turbo boost and still fire a big gun. Turn after that, you have Dreadnoughts in your face plus nasty firepower. Realistically, unless your opponent has lots of autocannons, Stormravens will weather the firepower--- remember Meltas do not matter as much.

Now, if your opponent has Hydras... you would have to shoot those first!

I am not stating this is the best designed list, but I am stating that AirCav tactics are quite different from standard list tactics.

[Sandman2663]

you are making a lot of assumptions about aircav.

If I were playing AirCav, I would always go second, if possible, and reserve everything in either case, unless of a very special circumstance. Stormravens can move 6 onto the table the turn they come in, and unleash all of their firepower. 4 Blood Strikes Missiles, a twin-linked Lascannon, and a 2 Typhoon Missiles is nasty business to be on the receiving end. Next turn you can Turbo boost and still fire a big gun. Turn after that, you have Dreadnoughts in your face plus nasty firepower. Realistically, unless your opponent has lots of autocannons, Stormravens will weather the firepower--- remember Meltas do not matter as much.

Now, if your opponent has Hydras... you would have to shoot those first!

I am not stating this is the best designed list, but I am stating that AirCav tactics are quite different from standard list tactics.

Thank you Tynskel. It does play vastly different than your normal Mech list. It has taken me many games just to get the Tactics down let alone the ins and outs of each element.


Read the first part of his post. :) This is definitely a viable list, but it's harder to play than a "standard" Blood Angels LOLRAZRBACK list. His vehicles are fast, and kitted out for different combat roles that, when he uses them together as one cohesive force, will most assuredly reach out and touch someone.

And when the cohesion works in a tourney, the look on my opponents face when they lose half or more of their armor in one shooting phase is priceless, the rest of the game is much easier.


I don't think it's arealyl strong list. It's got a few problems. 1st off it's very fragile. You don't much armor past AV13, in days where ML's get spammed very often, I don't think the SR will last very long, especially with the lack of EA on them.

5+ cover save only lasts so long, additionally, your assault squads are bereft of FnP, making them softer targets.

Now if you're thought is to have the dreads ride in the Ravens, that just allows your opponent to focus fire on your assault squads, because you can't split them and put half in the ravens and half on the ground. They have to be deployed to be able to combat squads.

I cut out what I wanted to comment on. Thank you for the critique Angel.
In all of my games I have never lost all 3 SR's. I often lose one the following turn they arrive but there is plenty of other Target priority out there. I have run the same list with Meph and less Speeders...BEAUTIFUL!

For clarification...
The Libby, Dreads and Troops ride in the SR's. Assault x5 in 3 of them and 5 DS in later to claim objective.
The Dreads don't get out until there are 'softer targets' on the ground unless the SR is shot down.
The Troops almost never get out until it is time to claim objectives.
Correction to your last statement. As far as I know without going to the BRB or codex for page numbers (sorry) Combat Squad is declared during Deployment. Reserves is also declared during deployment. I declare they squad out and ride the SR, one 5 man is DSing. Also on this note you have to declare the combat squad before you roll for Red Thirst. Once you combat squad they are two separate units.


Curious to why Hv Famers on the Land Speeder Typhoons. You have to get in close to use them, yet, the advantage of the missile launcher is its long range. Wouldn't a Hv Bolter be the better choice?

I needed the HF for crowd control. I play alot of Orks, Nids and Space Wolves. Plus I love the template. When they charge my SR I have >2 templates close by to remove them from my WMD.

It is really a tactical preference for the Speeders, I prefer the TypML/HF.
I tried Landspeeders x3 with HFx2 each and that is fragile.

[Tynskel]

Interesting about the Landspeeders-- I'll have to think about that the next time I field them.



Well, some people will disagree, other people will say it is as clear a sunshine--- the Deployment rules have multiple interpretations.

Jwolf will just say you are wrong.
I say you are correct.

Comes down to how you interpret the entire section for setting up a game, really. The entire setup section is very loosely written (as compared to the rest of the book). I use the context of the rules to interpret them, and Jwolf would say the same, I believe.

RAI vs RAW is bunch of junk. Rules As Intended (RAI) is dependent on Rules As Written (RAW). If you look up the definition of Intended, you'll see that the definition is depended on what is written. Bwahahahahahahahha--- we are allllll playing as RAI and RAW at the same time.

Seriously, I would put money on it that there is a 50/50 cut of how the setup section works. I have played up n' down California for the past 10 years, granted combat squads hasn't been around that long, but 5th edition has been around long enough. Everywhere I have played the game uses the same interpretation for Combat Squads as you do, and I bet everywhere Jwolf plays would say the exact opposite. Two different styles of playing/interpreting rules.

What's even more interesting is that the rules written for IG Platoons are almost completely opposite of Combat Squads--- Even though they are purchased as up to 14 separate units, they must all reserve together, and only one roll is made for entering the board-- which is cool, and makes logical sense, they are supposed to be a big giant unit.

[Angelofblades]

Read the first part of his post. :) This is definitely a viable list, but it's harder to play than a "standard" Blood Angels LOLRAZRBACK list. His vehicles are fast, and kitted out for different combat roles that, when he uses them together as one cohesive force, will most assuredly reach out and touch someone.

The army is fragile. Like I stated before, AV12 doesn't get very far, these aren't Waveserpents exactly, S9 and S10 weapons still hit you at their nominal strength, without EA, SR's are more susceptible to get stunned and shot out of the sky.

I've faced the lolrazrback list, in fact I faced it at Warcon and beat it soundly without breaking a sweat with a hybrid BA list and went on to do really well for my 1st time at Warcon.


Thank you Tynskel. It does play vastly different than your normal Mech list. It has taken me many games just to get the Tactics down let alone the ins and outs of each element.

And when the cohesion works in a tourney, the look on my opponents face when they lose half or more of their armor in one shooting phase is priceless, the rest of the game is much easier.



That can be said for any list. Finesse doesn't fly very far when faced with a brick to the face. With what you've said, you're banking on winning the roll to go first and giving it to your opponent, or hoping your opponent is a fool to win first and go first. Still not likely imho.






That's a common mistake alot of inexperienced players make in regards to combat squads and reserves. For clarification I'll quote the relevant paragraphs:

BA Combat squads rule
[quote]The decision to split the unit into combat squads as well as which models go into each combat squad
must be made when the unit is deployed. Both combat squads can be deployed in separate locations.

Rulebook Pg 94

When deploying their army, players may choose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve.

Clearly, o split a unit into combat squads, you need to deploy them onto the table. Reserves specifically says that you choose not to deploy a unit, instead, to leave it in reserves. I've seen quite a few players make this mistake. Unfortunate really.

[Tynskel]

That's leaving out a lot of the text in the Main Rulebook-- you are leaving about 10 pages of previous text out. While you read the sentences in the rulebook, you'll note that deployment changes meanings between in-game and pre-game. Deployment is undefined by the rulebook: it isn't like 'within', 'Leadership', nor 'Fearless' which are all defined explicitly in the rulebook.

This is NOT an inexperience thing either. (I, for one, have been playing since 2nd Edition.)

As I said earlier, there's probably a 50/50 split on how to interpret the Game Setup Rules--- neither one is wrong.

[Sandman2663]

The army is fragile. Like I stated before, AV12 doesn't get very far, these aren't Waveserpents exactly, S9 and S10 weapons still hit you at their nominal strength, without EA, SR's are more susceptible to get stunned and shot out of the sky.

That can be said for any list. Finesse doesn't fly very far when faced with a brick to the face. With what you've said, you're banking on winning the roll to go first and giving it to your opponent, or hoping your opponent is a fool to win first and go first. Still not likely imho.

That's a common mistake alot of inexperienced players make in regards to combat squads and reserves.

Real quick Angel, I would like to address the above from you and will get the latter in your post later tonight. I value the critique from this community.

With the Alpha strike tactic there should be very little left that can pen AV12, not many lists have over 6 separate S9 or S10 elements. In my experience I rarely lose more than one in a game.

IMHO 'Finesse' will out maneuver and out play a 'Brick in the face' everyday of the week. It takes a better general to play with something besides a Brick.
I am only speaking from experience here with the rolloff, 9 out 10 opponents want to go first or I let them go first.

Was this last remark made as a generality or towards me as another assumption regarding me as a player?

I think the entire deployment/combat squad discussion should go into another topic. Do you want to start it?

[Tynskel]

it has already been started and finished. Jwolf closed it. Two people were flaming each other (hehehe, one was me! whoops!).

There really isn't a point to starting the topic again.

Just read the rulebook yourself (which you already have) and come up with your own interpretation (which you already have).