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View Full Version : Salamanders 1850 wip for RTT next week



mullhead
08-20-2010, 03:09 PM
HQ:

Vulkan He'Stan 190 pts
S6 MC Relic Weapon, HF, Digital weapons, AA, Kesare's Mantle(3+ Inv)

Elite:

Dreadnought 150 pts
MM, HF
Drop Pod w/ SB

Dreadnought 150 pts
MM, HF
Drop Pod w/ SB

Terminator Assault Squad 200 pts
5x TH & SS

Troops:

Tactical Squad 220 pts
10x, MM, Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB

Tactical Squad 220 pts
10x, MM, Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB

Tactical Squad 220 pts
10x, MM, Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB

Heavy Support:

Land Raider Redeemer 250 pts
MM

Total: 1600

Ok 3 pods drop turn 1, Vulkan rides with the Assault Termies in the redeemer unless they deep strike. I have 250 points to fill and want some advice. Listing the models I have have available, but I am looking at adding either more ranged firepower or another tooled CC squad.

Available:

Librarians
Chaplains
Tactical Marines
Sniper Scouts
Assault Squad with or without jump packs
Vanguard Veterans with or without jump packs
Rhinos
Razorbacks
Predator
Vindicator
Whirlwind
Master of the Forge w/ Servitors

My first thought at add a vindicator and a whirlwind and possibly some scouts to have some more things on the board at the start. Looking forward to your C&C. Thanks

blackarmchair
08-20-2010, 03:47 PM
Given the choices that you listed I think your option is best.

Scouts for holding objectives plus some extra killy is good.
Another Tactical Squad would be nice too...

If you had land speeders I would recommend them as well.

Sir Biscuit
08-20-2010, 05:21 PM
The land raider is totally out of place in a list like this. Having one vehicle on the table, regardless of how tough it is, is not a good idea. Raiders work in some lists, but definitely NOT drop lists. I would drop it and DS the termies 100% of the time.

Using those 250 points, certainly get 3 MM/HF speeders.I see you don't have them, and you should buy them. They are excellent in ANY space marine list. (A must have, in my opinion.) Also, you should turn those dreadnoughts into ironclads. They are MUCH more survivable, a must in an all drop list. Also, a VERY easy conversion.

Have Vulkan ride in one of the pods, you'll want the melee threat in amongst your troops and the termies will overkill everything anyway. Here's the list I would make for you given what you're doing:

HQ:

Vulkan He'Stan 190 pts
S6 MC Relic Weapon, HF, Digital weapons, AA, Kesare's Mantle(3+ Inv)

Librarian 140 pts
Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Null Zone, The Avenger

Elite:

Ironclad Dreadnought 180 pts
Melta, HF
Drop Pod w/ SB

Ironclad Dreadnought 180 pts
Melta, HF
Drop Pod w/ SB

Terminator Assault Squad 200 pts
5x TH & SS

Troops:

Tactical Squad 265 pts
10x, MM, Melta, Combi-Flamer, PF
Drop Pod w/ SB and Locator Beacon

Tactical Squad 255 pts
10x, MM, Melta, PF
Drop Pod w/ SB and Locator Beacon

Tactical Squad 230 pts
10x, MM, Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB and Locator Beacon

Fast Attack:
Land Speeder 70 pts
+MM/HF

Land Speeder 70 pts
+MM/HF

Land Speeder 70 pts
+MM/HF

Total: 1850

All your squads land first. Dreads landing first may SEEM like a good idea, but they're very, very fragile when appearing in a gun line. All you initial pods now have locator beacons, so the entire rest of the army (which is deep striking) can use them.

Vulkan should ride with the flamer/PW squad, as they could use the melee help. The librarian can either ride with one of the initial squads down or DS with the terminators. After you land your first wave, in any scoring game you should probably combat squad. Have a fire team and an engagement team.

Effectively, you will land with your first wave and create a nice fire base, and then your melee threats will hit the table guided in by the beacons.

Try some proxies and play your friends, I'm sure you'd be happy with this list.

Tynskel
08-20-2010, 06:02 PM
You know what is 250 points? I know what is 250 points: Marneus Calgar.

Mr. Badmo fo himself.

He's a great addition to any one of your Tactical Squads. He'll kill just about anything- takes punishment like no other. Plus, the squad he's apart of will not have to take any moral/pinning checks. You just choose to pass or fail.

Sir Biscuit
08-20-2010, 06:05 PM
Except then you lose Vulkans special for Calgar's.

If you want more beatdown, 5 more TH/SS termies is only 200 points. But you need more utility across the list, not more melee power.

mullhead
08-20-2010, 06:39 PM
Surprisely I do have an old calgar model, also I have amazing things about speeders which I've not used but they are on my list of new pieces to purchase. Terminators won't fit 3 elite choices already. I like having the librarian possibly but the only thing I can fit in is the 6 scouts 5 snipers and a heavy bolter. Alternatively I was thinking maybe a vindicator or whirwind or both just to have more vehicles on the ground at start

Sir Biscuit
08-20-2010, 10:08 PM
The problem is that more vehicles won't really help that much to start.

Also, you can in fact fit five more terminators. Just increase the five man squad to ten. You can even combat squad them!

I still think you should all-or-nothing deep strike, but if you really have to use the models on hand, I would not run a drop list. Run your men in Rhinos instead. For your last 250 points, take a 5 man scout squad with camo cloaks and a missile launcher (it's better than the heavy bolter, as it allows you to hurt transports) for an even 100 points. Get a vindicator as well, (115) and fill the last 85 points with a dakkpred (autocannon/HB for 85).

Also, if you are SET on using the raider, get a dozer blade on it. 5 points to stop your 250 point tank from immobilizing itself is critical. Remember, Land Raiders need to drive through terrain to drop guys off. Don't get immobilized doing it. Drop a flamer on a dreadnought if you have to.

I think you'd be better off with the list I posted as a drop army, but eh, I realize we go to war with what we have, not what we want. Still, give it a try some time and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

In any case, let us know how the tournament goes, and your thoughts on your list afterwords. too many people post lists and we never know what happens to them!

mullhead
08-20-2010, 11:09 PM
Well I have the 5 Drop pods. I have 5 rhino bodies for which I have a whirlwind conversion, predator kit, a couple razorbacks. I was lucky to have the foresight to use some rare earth magnets on most of my newer pieces. I can field 8 TH & SS assault termies and 2x LC the other two. I would love to buy some speeders, and I want to try some scout bikers, turbo-boosting scout move with a locator beacon. I keep mulling the the options and I agree on the scouts, they have saved my butt alot in objective games. I think putting the vindicator and either the dakka pred or whirlwind on the table at least splits fire at the beginning of the match I have run this army mechanized a few times with mixed results. What I need to do is get some speeders and get 2 more pods and complete the list I want to play.


HQ:

Vulkan He'Stan 190 pts
S6 MC Relic Weapon, HF, Digital weapons, AA, Kesare's Mantle(3+ Inv)

Elite:

Dreadnought 150 pts
MM, HF
Drop Pod w/ SB

Dreadnought 150 pts
MM, HF
Drop Pod w/ SB

Terminator Assault Squad 200 pts
5x TH & SS

Troops:

Tactical Squad 230 pts
10x, MM, Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB, LB

Tactical Squad 220 pts
10x, MM, Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB

Tactical Squad 220 pts
10x, MM, Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB

Scout Squad 116 pts
6x, 5x Sniper, ML, Camo Cloaks

Heavy Support:

Land Raider Redeemer 250 pts
MM

Vindicator 120 pts
Dozer Blade

Total: 1846 pts

Added LB to one tactical squad 6x scouts snipers and camo cloaks. Vindicator with dozer blade, can't put a blade on the LRR.

One other option is removing the LRR, adding a jump pack librarian and a 10 man assualt squad leaving no models on the table with everything deepstrike

HQ:

Vulkan He'Stan 190 pts
S6 MC Relic Weapon, HF, Digital weapons, AA, Kesare's Mantle(3+ Inv)

Librarian 125 pts
Jump Pack, Null Zone, Avenger

Elite:

Dreadnought 150 pts
MM, HF
Drop Pod w/ SB

Dreadnought 150 pts
MM, HF
Drop Pod w/ SB

Terminator Assault Squad 320 pts
8x TH & SS

Troops:

Tactical Squad 230 pts
10x, MM, Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB, LB

Tactical Squad 230 pts
10x, MM, Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB, LB

Tactical Squad 220 pts
10x, MM, Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB

Fast Attack:

Assault Squad 235 pts
10x, Flamer, Flamer, PF


Total: 1850 pts

Tournament is next saturday and I will definitely post my results. I think these are my final two options thanks for all the comments so far looking forward to more

blackarmchair
08-21-2010, 02:12 AM
After you land your first wave, in any scoring game you should probably combat squad. Have a fire team and an engagement team.

Isn't that illegal? Seeing as you decide whether or not to combat squad prior to deployment and would therefore have 2 combat squads riding in one drop pod (2 units in 1 transport).

bugsftw
08-21-2010, 05:36 AM
Isn't that illegal? Seeing as you decide whether or not to combat squad prior to deployment and would therefore have 2 combat squads riding in one drop pod (2 units in 1 transport).

it says in the drop pod rules that you can choose to combat squad as soon as a unit lands from a drop pod. at least in the bangel codex.

imp
08-21-2010, 06:21 AM
I acctually like speeders with two heavy flamers (in pairs). They are really good at beeing in the opponent way, which is really imortant in a drop pod list. They also are fun when you get about 30 hits with your four twin-linked HF.

Tynskel
08-21-2010, 09:07 AM
Except then you lose Vulkans special for Calgar's.

If you want more beatdown, 5 more TH/SS termies is only 200 points. But you need more utility across the list, not more melee power.

read the fine line rules.

Vulkan replaces Combat Tactics with the melta/flamer/thunder hammer rule. Calgar just states if the army has combat tactics they do x. Calgar also has an extension to that rule, that his squad still uses the calgar's special rule, even if they don't have combat tactics.


I ran Calgar and Vulkan together at the last 'Ard Boyz. Worked really well, except for an after the fact cheating sun of a gun. Know your opponent's codex!!!!


Making a calgar model is easy--- Take a Power Armor Marine, add two powerfists. Put a pair of holsters on his belt. Tah-dah a WYSIWYG Stand-in for Calgar.

Sir Biscuit
08-21-2010, 10:49 AM
I see what you are trying to say, but you are wrong. Vulkan makes you lose Combat Tactics. Calgar's ability "God of War" only affects units with combat tactics. Thus, Calgar will not provide any benefit to your army. Calgar CAN do this with his own squad, as he always has the ability, but that's not a giant buff that you are still paying for. Calgar is a pretty powerful character, but he doesn't bring as much pain as the 6 and change terminators that he costs. Buy him if you want to use his buff, not so you can have another melee threat.

List 2 is definitely the superior one. In my opinion it's a bit stronger when run like this:

HQ:

Vulkan He'Stan 190 pts
S6 MC Relic Weapon, HF, Digital weapons, AA, Kesare's Mantle(3+ Inv)

Librarian 125 pts
Jump Pack, Null Zone, Avenger

Elite:

Ironclad Dreadnought 170 pts
Drop Pod w/ SB

Ironclad Dreadnought 170 pts
Drop Pod w/ SB

Terminator Assault Squad 280 pts
6x TH & SS

Troops:

Tactical Squad 245 pts
10x, MM, Meltagun, Combi-Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB, LB

Tactical Squad 245 pts
10x, MM, Meltagun, Combi-Flamer, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB, LB

Tactical Squad 225 pts
10x, MM, Meltagun, PW
Drop Pod w/ SB

Fast Attack:

Assault Squad 240 pts
10x, Flamer, Flamer, Thunder Hammer


Total: 1850 pts

Drop two terminators to put meltaguns and combi-flamers in squads, give the Assault sergeant a TH (Master-crafted! YES!) and upgrade those dreads to ironclads. If you're wondering why I replaced your flamers with meltaguns, it's because you were seriously lacking ranged anti-tank. You had a decision of either your squad has to sit still to shoot tanks, or they can move but not hurt them. Remember, you don't need a lot of anti light infantry in a marine list, you carry a lot of boltguns and marines eat light infantry in melee.

Ironclads are MUCH more survivable. They don't have the heavy flamer upgrade because the points aren't there and because they don't really need it. A dreadnought will usually only make use of it 1-2 a game. (Usually on the turn you drop, and pretty much never thereafter.) But if you want them, you can exchange the combi-flamers in the squads for them.

I also wrote an Assault Marine tactica a while ago which I think might be helpful to you here (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=5303).

Tynskel
08-21-2010, 11:03 AM
Uhhh...

What you said is what I said.



I am not sure how you are adding things together

1) 6 Terminators = 240, not 280.

That will make the list 1850

I think the Combi-flamers should all be combi-meltas.
The thunder hammer in the assault squad should be a Power Weapon. Then you can add another combi-melta to the tacticals. Give Melta bombs to the assault sgt.

mullhead
08-21-2010, 09:31 PM
I have decided to use and keep the second 1850 point list I posted. My LGS had an open painting competition today 3.5 hours from opening the blister to judging. I didn't win anything, but by bringing some bitz with me I now have my fully painted Jump Pack Librarian. So with this in mind I haven't had much experience with Librarians and wanted some opinions on spells to take. I think Null Zone will be extremely helpful and a must. As for the second spell I few jump out at me as good such as Gate of Infinity, Avenger, Vortex of Doom. I was wondering anyone's experience with the spells and which you think to be the most important. By the way thanks for all the information up to this point, with all the recommendations I will definitely try and proxy the Ironclad and Land Speeders and see how i like them in the future.

As a review my strategy depends mainly on the scenario but for objective scenarios I see the three tactical squad coming in first Vulkan riding with the one without the locator beacon as he should need the least Assault support. The squad will combat squad into a MM and flamer squad. MMs hold the objectives, while the flamers block assaults on the scoring squad. Everything from there on out will try and use the locator beacons depending on they when they come into the game. Also with 8 KPs for annihilation scenarios i am not too poorly off.

Sir Biscuit
08-21-2010, 10:31 PM
Sorry Tynskel, I think I misunderstood what you were saying. The list should be 1850, I adjusted the final number whenever I made a change and just forgot when I dropped the second terminator. Should be 1850 still.

I definitely disagree on the power weapon on the assault squad, though. They really need something that can hurt monstrous creatures, or in a worst case scenario, a dreadnought. PW+meltabombs means ANY dread that hits the squad will easily remove it from the game.

In no particular order:
Gate: is not very useful on a jump librarian, who can cover that distance very quickly anyway.
Vortex of Doom: is downright terrible, as it's HEAVY 1, so you can't move or assault to use it. Only good on Terminator or Bike librarians who both have relentless.
Null Zone: Take it. Too good to pass up.
Might of the Ancients: Only really good if you upgrade to epistolary, so you can get a S6 force weapon. Otherwise, it's okay, but not great.
Machine Curse: Pretty terrible, unfortunitly. The other options are just better.
Smite: ahahahahaha smite.
The Avenger: Pretty good, especially on a fast librarian. Avenger + 2 TL flamers will hurt ANY infantry without a 2+ save. Quite good.
Quickening: Just... bad. Higher initiative doesn't help when the librarian can't hurt very much, and who detaches him so he can go solo against squads? Avoid it.
Force dome: Highly underrated. Especially in a jump assault squad, who can use it in melee, to avoid being shot in the open, for protection when they deep strike, and even to help with dangerous terrain tests when jumping in/out of terrain.

So, basically you have a choice of:
Null Zone + Avenger
Null Zone + Force Dome

I'd do the second one myself, but I do always tend to lean towards protection. I recommend you try them both and see which one you like more.

If you're going with your second list straight, the only minor change I would make is to give your assault captain a thunder hammer instead of a powerfist. Master crafted is VERY good, you'll usually miss an attack so Master Crafted is not far from getting an extra attack. I'd even drop a flamer on a dread for it. (You bring a lot of anti-infantry already anyway, and that sergeant needs all the help he can get against big stuff.)

Tynskel
08-21-2010, 11:54 PM
I dunno. Assault marines, to me, are designed to take out gribblies. Buying a PF/TH for a gribbly killing squad is kinda a waste (especially when equipped with flamers). Now Plasma Pistols is a different story...
Getting charged by a dreadnought when your squad moves 12+" per turn sounds like you messed up.

Tactical squads are slow, and can get caught by Dreads n' Monsterous Creatures--- they should have th PF.

But, this is ultimately a style thing--- You like your assault squads as jack of trades, I prefer them just killing hordes. You might wanna look into the Blood Angels (if you haven't already)-- you can equip those squads whatever way you want!

Sir Biscuit
08-22-2010, 12:16 AM
Yeah, including with meltaguns, which makes them truly terrifying.

It's not that you messed up if you get charged by a dread, sometimes it's unavoidable... same with MC's. Against any Tyranid list worth its salt you'll be seeing lots of gaunts standing right next to termagaunts. You can't really get one without the other. Smart marine players do the same thing to rope in and kill assault squads.

mullhead
08-22-2010, 06:27 AM
I dunno. Assault marines, to me, are designed to take out gribblies. Buying a PF/TH for a gribbly killing squad is kinda a waste (especially when equipped with flamers). Now Plasma Pistols is a different story...
Getting charged by a dreadnought when your squad moves 12+" per turn sounds like you messed up.

Tactical squads are slow, and can get caught by Dreads n' Monsterous Creatures--- they should have th PF.

The power fist in the assualt squad makes more sense from my end as 2 out of 3 times you will be combat squading the tacticals. They are also your only scoring units the last thing I want is them in CC with a Dreadnought or MC. On the other hand the assault squad is there for flexibility that your tactical squad can provide but shouldn't need too.That assault squad is the only savior as i only have footslogging mobility after the drop pods land.

I am going to use the thunder hammer and pull a heavy flamer off a dread. and have 5 points left so I am probably taking a combat shield lol. As putting melta bombs on the assualt sarge seems like overkill. If the librarian could take them that would be great. Thanks again

RIGHT-Titan
08-22-2010, 06:56 AM
C:SM Too. Codex specifically states you choose to combat squad when the drop pod lands.. so you can wait right up until you have to disembark them.

Which is awesome because there are those times you want a huge killy unit.