What I learned from ard boyz

[Dwarflord17404]

I played a balanced empire list (list can be found in my other post "is this ard enough for you) and here are my thoughts:


1)
Well first off I only got to play in two of the three rounds because i messed up the time
so I learned double check time of tournement. (got to play because of a family emergencyof other player)


2) missle units are a waste of points ( my 2 units of handgunners did bukus)

3) Ogres still lack leadership and therfore die to massed infantry

4) Apparlently all those rumors about how VC and TK being lower tiered in this edtion were greatly overstated.

5) Nothing beats good generalship (best aspect of this game).

6) my flagerlents 3 x10 horde formation was a fire magnet and performed awesome in combat. (going in I though they were a liablity)

7) Need a Genral of the empire for my army as I rolled way too many 8's . Twice in Most cases.

8) Had too many wizards/magic users that 100 points could have bought me that Genral my army needed and maybe could have cast a few prayers.

[Oyerbides]

Thanks for this. I have a normal tourney coming up at the end of the month. I kind of figured some of what you said. I didn't see your list, but just a couple thoughts.

The Horde/Support rules mean that undead get to fight back. Very rarely will you completely blow away enough of them where they can't fight back, so no more of the "well my champion is the only one left to attack back etc" So Undead hordes will be more powerful. I suspect high Initiative, multi-attack types might do okay against them though.

This month's Battle Report in White Dwarf shows how effective a lowely Level 2 or Priest type can be in the game.

I was a little surprised about your Handgunners though. Maybe somewhat bigger units, ranking them, would be a little better. Don't know there.

Anyway, just my thoughts; for what they are worth.

[mynameisgrax]

I was the opposite, because of a personal emergency, I only got to play the first round (this wasn't at Gamer's Realm in NJ was it? ^_^). I played a relatively balanced Ogre army, with two giant units of ironguts, and plenty of points spent on a Tyrant and a Slaughtermaster.

I learned:

1. Agreed on Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts. Both did quite well, and a Vampire Counts player won the whole thing. Both were very good players, and although I think both armies have problems, it goes to show that any Warhammer army can be competitive.

(The big advantage for Tomb Kings, by the way, was the fact that they generate power dice even though they don't use them, allowing them to use them all to dispel remains in play spells, and still be able to cast everything. The big advantage for Vampire Counts was their bonus movement abilities/spells, combined with unbreakable troops. A skilled player can lock down most or all of an enemy army by turn 2.)

2. Ogres defeat large blocks of troops by having a ton of attacks while being stubborn. The spell that makes them stubborn and gives them +1 Toughness is good, but a character with a crown of command is even better (since it can't be dispelled). Throw in the regen/MR spell and you're set.

3. Magic is pretty random, since most players choose to cast their best spell, and throw all the dice to intentionally get IF/Miscast. On that note...

4. Purple Sun of Xerus is really broken. The game was going fairly even, but when the Purple Sun was cast with irresistible force, it flew into my 2nd most expensive unit on one turn (killing most of it), and then during the next two magic phases, after I failed to dispel it by 1 (I threw all my dice at it), it moved right into my most expensive unit twice. At that point the game was over.

I know it's a spell that can backfire, but it's just no fun having a spell that can randomly win any player any game, regardless of what their opponent does, reducing an entire epic battle into a small handful of dice rolls.

[Cherub]

What I learned is I really hate ASF kroxigors in a large unit, and having to fight the fay enchantress and 2 units of grail knights.

I took an all infantry list with a fair amount of artillery. My chars where an arch lector on foot, a bsb with Griffin standard, lvl 4 fire wizard and a lvl 2 life wizard. My first game was a minor loss against the guy that took 1st. Difference of 157vp, I picked up 3 of the extra objectives, with games 2 and 3 where massacres with 7 objectives between the 2 of them.

[Dwarflord17404]

I was a little surprised about your Handgunners though. Maybe somewhat bigger units, ranking them, would be a little better. Don't know there.
.

The problem I found with the handgunners was that with only 24 inch range . You only have one round of shooting before you engage in combat Either charging with your big blocks or they are are top of you or in the case of the tomb king player with 4 catapults he was hugging the board edge and had to move twice to get in range and by the time that happens they are hitting on 5's and not to bore you with probality lets just say I was hitting 2-3 times with the 10 handgunners . Compare that with the 20 + hits with the hellstorm or mortar and with the enginner trick reduces chance of misfir, The range , and watching your oppenent remove fistfulls of models. Also a unit of 10 handgunners =80 points a mortar =75 points. But in this addtion you can't miss.

good luck on your tourney. Rember to have fun.

[Pil]

I learned Kairos really hates initiative test spells, and that a large unit of Bloodcrushers with a herald and stubborn banner eat everything. I managed to get 2nd place and will be bringing a level 2 and probably a Bloodthirster to help the Bloodcrushers wreck more face. I honestly think a level 2 is good enough with the randomness of magic now. Being able to walk up to someones biggest nastiest infantry block and crush it seems much more important.

[Nikephoros]

I learned that Teclis can cast Purple Sun on max power every turn and there is very little you can do to stop it in the first few turns.

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

I learned that Teclis can cast Purple Sun on max power every turn and there is very little you can do to stop it in the first few turns.

I had something like that happen to me once. Feedback scroll turned that L into a D. My general fled off the table and his blew it's head off. :)

[Nikephoros]

I had something like that happen to me once. Feedback scroll turned that L into a D. My general fled off the table and his blew it's head off. :)

Unfortunately to kill teclis with that scroll you need him to fail to cast first. Since he casts purple sun irresistably every turn you can't use it until he rolls no doubles on 6 dice and doesnt hit the 25 casting cost. Not often.

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

Unfortunately to kill teclis with that scroll you need him to fail to cast first. Since he casts purple sun irresistably every turn you can't use it until he rolls no doubles on 6 dice and doesnt hit the 25 casting cost. Not often.

Thank god it wasn't teclis though. I guess I should be thankful that our group normally doesn't use named characters.

[KriegXXIX]

I enjoyed the semis. Brought my Empire which had:
General
ArchMage (light)
BSB
2 Warrior Priests (1 mounted)
2 Captains (1 mounted)
Swordsmen w/Archers
2 Handgunner Units
Knights
Greatswords w/Archers
Outriders
2 Pistolier units
2 Cannons
Mortar
2 Helstorms
1 Helblaster

I ended up playing the first, second and third place guys. I beat the second place guy (VC), and played hard against the other two (DE who won, and Daemons). Big thing I learned is to try and practice against as wide a range of armies as possible. I had a lot of games against Warriors and Undead going in but I wish I got to play some of the other armies. Unfortunately, the local gaming group is limited. I made some mistakes against Daemons and Dark Elves that I didn't against VC b/c I was used to playing them.
Also, bring the fire banner to this style of event. I also like lore of light for 'ard Boyz. My wizard killed the Hag Queen, 3 units of flamers, a Khorne Herald, and got time warp on my knights who then eviscerated a hydra in combat. The combo of buffs and damage dealing is great. Banishment was absolutely wicked against Daemons.

[mynameisgrax]

For those who are interested, I found some results from the finals. I haven't heard anything about the LA Ard boyz, but at the PA Ard boyz it was chaos daemons (Kairos, flamers, lots of troops, but no bloodletters) that took 1st place. I'm not sure who took 2nd, but apparently another chaos daemons player took 3rd.

At the Chicago Battle Bunker tournament, these were the results:

1st: tie between a Skaven army (lots of magic & hordes, no ogres or doomwheels) and Dark Elves (hydra spam)
2nd: Dark Elves
3rd: Empire

After looking around at several sights to find semi-finals results and entrants, I've found a few surprising things:

1. There were very few Vampire Counts players, and the ones that were there all played giant hordes of 200+ ghouls/zombies. The strategy was to keep the units filled with invocation of nehek, and use danse to lock the opponent's army in close combat with unbreakable troops. They did well, but the lack of any other builds may mean that this is the only viable strategy they have right now.

2. There were a LOT of Bretonnian players that qualified for the semi-finals. Despite many people calling them low tier, they seem to be doing quite well, at least at high point levels. I think the lance formation is to thank for that, since it enables them to remove steadfast from most infantry blocks, something that other cavalry units can't easily do.

3. Lot of Orc and Goblin players qualified as well. Cheap tarpits + cheap warmachines + great Lords/heroes make the army more viable than I originally thought.

4. Lizardmen seem to be getting snubbed in favor of Chaos Warriors (for near invincible blocks of troops) and High Elves (for super wizards). There also don't seem to be any engines or stegadons in any competitive lizardmen lists anymore, at least not at high point levels.

5. Every last High Elves Ard Boyz list I've seen has included Teclis, without exception.

Okay, that last one wasn't that surprising. ^_^