Is now a good time to get back in?

Hey folks, firstly this i my first post in a long while so hello to you all!

TL;DR at bottom.

I've been lurking here for a few weeks now, and ya'll certainly seem to be a lively bunch, so I'm looking forward to some good discussion. However my principle reason for lurking hear is to try and urk out the shape of 40K and GW in general.

I haven't played since the early days of 5th edition in 2008, I started playing in 2003 with LotR (I was young and the movies were the best thing I'd ever seen, so ya' know). I've always kept a close eye on the tabletop industry and the public reception of GW has never really been positive. However now that I've finished Uni and have a steady job/disposable income.... I'm starting feel the lure of the Grim Dark calling me once more.

I've always loved the 40k lore, and In my opinion the quality of their mini's is unrivaled.

But I get the feeling more people are jumping ship than ever, prices continue to rise and rules are broken more than ever. I regularly see posts foretelling the doom of GW, but GW have been capitalizing on their licence more than ever with video games, so surely they'd be in a stronger position than before no?

I suppose really I'm asking for a general opinion on the game, their certainly seems to be a lot more big robots and jets than last time, I'd like to start a Grey Knights force but will I get creamed it I don't shell out £90+ on those big Imperial Knight/Eldar/Tau kits? Is the game all Baneblades vs Titans now?

I know a lot of you may advise me to try out another system, but honestly the PP models just don't do it for me, lore and aesthetics has always been the biggest draw to 40K for myself, but are these worth the price of entry and broken game?

Finally thanks so much for reading thus far! But If I were to start once more it'd be from literally nothing, how much am I looking at for a Grey Kights force at 1500pts all paints, supplies, tools, rules included... rough estimate?

TL;DR been out of the game since 5th edition, thinking of starting once again. Good thing or bad thing? I literally have nothing, want to play Grey Knights what would the cost be?

Welcome back! Don't feel bad about coming in via LoTR, the models were nice and the movies were awesome. The Hobbit game has actually seen a resurgence in my local scene, so all power to you.

You're absolutely right, 40k does have the best lore and some of the best minis to play with. In terms of the state of the game, though, the answer (as always) is: it depends. If you're a casual gamer with a group of mates who play regularly, the game will be whatever you want it to be. If you're into the competitive side of things, you should be ready to come up against Knights, Wraith Knights and super heavies.

That said, GW seems to be reigning in their idiotic pricing. But the game is way different to what it was in 5th. With formations, allies, detachments, unbound, Imperial Knights and flyers all being common-place and mostly accepted across the board, there is a lot more going on and heaps of new ways to build and structure your army. Eg. Grey Knights have their own book, separate from Inquisition now. The two books can ally perfectly well, but it's two books instead of one. Also Assassins have their own 'Data Slate', which is an e-book. But if you pick up this week's WD, you can get their rules for free. Yay!

Don't let the changes dissuade you, though. The game is as fun as ever. Some would argue more. There are so many things available, and new models coming out every week, so I would highly recommend you get on board.

Grey Knights are a pretty good army to get started with. You can easily get 1,500 points with a couple of Dreadknights, a few units of terminators and a Storm Raven. I would recommend getting a flyer. They're heaps of fun and the most reliable way to get rid of other flyers. GK are a fairly handy force as well, able to hold their own. I can't tell you what it would cost, I'm not in the UK.

I would advise that you head down to your local store or club or where ever you plan on playing, and scope out the field. That will give you a better idea of your local 'meta' than anything anyone online tells you.

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Originally Posted by xbenblasterx

But I get the feeling more people are jumping ship than ever, prices continue to rise and rules are broken more than ever. I regularly see posts foretelling the doom of GW, but GW have been capitalizing on their licence more than ever with video games, so surely they'd be in a stronger position than before no?

GW are under more economic pressure than ever - the video royalties have dried up a lot (although stand by for total war warhammer to skew that a bit. They are nowhere near the collapse people have been predicting for ever - to bring a company exclusively selling luxury goods through that recession was pretty good.

I suppose really I'm asking for a general opinion on the game, their certainly seems to be a lot more big robots and jets than last time, I'd like to start a Grey Knights force but will I get creamed it I don't shell out £90+ on those big Imperial Knight/Eldar/Tau kits? Is the game all Baneblades vs Titans now?

The game is not all big stuff and the key to avoiding getting creamed is to have a discussion with opponents first - so whilst you are building your army up, you don't get a game where you cannot deal with the opposition.

I know a lot of you may advise me to try out another system, but honestly the PP models just don't do it for me, lore and aesthetics has always been the biggest draw to 40K for myself, but are these worth the price of entry and broken game?

The lore and aesthetics keep a lot of people in. The price of entry is what it is but you will find commentary where hobby x costs a little more and hobby y (scuba diving etc) costs a mint more. If you have time and disposable income it is worth it. If either are tight it is more of a risk.

Finally thanks so much for reading thus far! But If I were to start once more it'd be from literally nothing, how much am I looking at for a Grey Kights force at 1500pts all paints, supplies, tools, rules included... rough estimate?

I have no idea - but your tag says Wales so presumably UK. There are several reputable companies in the UK doing discount - I like Darksphere and Wayland crops up. You may consider ebaying a starter force for cheap - dip your toe in the water.

TL;DR been out of the game since 5th edition, thinking of starting once again. Good thing or bad thing? I literally have nothing, want to play Grey Knights what would the cost be?

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xbenblasterx - have tried to answer your questions above. I think all I have to add is remember the internet armchair warriors (myself included) will portray the extremes of the problems and we are 'internet autistic' by which I mean our manners are not always what they would be face to face. The state of 40K is vulnerable and all over the place ruleswise and some matches are auto-massacres. However the sand-box has never been so varied and thus there should be something to whet your whistle on. Also there is a reasonable gaming scene and tournament scene all around the UK mainland.

Hope this helps.

Ok going to throw my 2 cents in here. Granted I'm a newbie myself so everything below I would take with a grain of salt, and also consider from a more neutral party.

Miniature quality for most of GW's stuff (IE newer stuff) its top tiered but there are other companies that rival it (soldier for soldier my opinion is that Infinity troops are superior to GW troops... however they are very limited pose wise and are made to be built one way) and actually beat it. However GW has the edge on customizing and adding your own flair to their miniatures with all the little parts included.

Honestly I think a lot of ship jumping could be happening because GW doesn't basically own a monopoly anymore on miniature war gaming. Now there are options for what type of game you want to play. 40K is very much an army game focused on huge units and armies of smaller units in a 28mm scale. Most of the other army games that approach (or beat technically) the army sizes of 40K are 10mm to 15mm games were your tanks are the size of 40K infantry. Also there is less customization of individual troops due to scale.

Honestly 40K is a "game scale" all of its own. It has some elements of a 28mm skirmish game with options for specific troops, but it has the larger scale massed army closer to a 10mm/15mm game. If this is what you want in a miniature game then 40k is the best option for you. 40k definitely lends to having more "heroes on foot" than other games.

If you want an infantry skirmish game... I would recommend looking into Infinity, or Malifaux. If you want a game more focused on tanks/armor and infantry is more abstract Dropzone Commander or Firestorm Planetfall might be more to your liking.

Prices are... odd honestly. For what you get miniature wise GW isn't that bad on many products new Skartii (I know I'm spelling it wrong), and Windriders I find well priced for what you get in plastic (not in game terms). However the $28 monopose with no options leader models are a slap in the face on pricing. Easily double the price of single 28mm models from almost any other company. Also I find the rules heavily overpriced...

Also no game is perfectly balanced, granted 40K is definitely not in the top brackets for balance. That is clear from all the discussions of "how to be a gentleman in army making" are popping up way too often. Because of this I would go down and get a feel for your local gaming group. Get a feel for how they play before you buy anything... are they all super competitive? If so you should buy/build a power list. Are the for fun fluffy players? If so I would make a balanced army that doesn't abuse the best units in the codex and make people not want to play you. This could save you lots of money and pain in the long run.

Also the game from what I've seen isn't ALL big models shooting each other... granted you do see a good number of them, but they are not all you see. I think if 40k ever turned to pure rock'm sock'm robots it would see a massive decline in popularity because you have games like Battletech for that.

Either way plenty of people enjoy 40k a lot and its not going to die any time soon unless GW goes full idiot and tries to kill it, and even then it will not completely die for many years.

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Originally Posted by StingrayP226

Prices are... odd honestly. For what you get miniature wise GW isn't that bad on many products new Skartii (I know I'm spelling it wrong), and Windriders I find well priced for what you get in plastic (not in game terms). However the $28 monopose with no options leader models are a slap in the face on pricing. Easily double the price of single 28mm models from almost any other company. Also I find the rules heavily overpriced...

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With a few exceptions, the price per model for GW is actually very competitive with many other miniature companies out there. The problem is that your model count for 40k is much higher since most 28mm games are skirmish games where your forces are much smaller. In many of those games, $100 will buy a starter plus some alternate mini's and you have a playable force with options. In 40k $100 buys 2 tac squads and one HQ mini. That 380-400 points give or take HQ choice and upgrades. You may even have more mini's for your $100, but it's not much to play with.

Hello mate! To paraphrase Dickens... it is the best of times, it is the worst of times. :)

How much fun you can have is directly related to your community so my biggest suggestion is to find a group where the game means the same to them as it does to you. 6th/7th lifted the Force org restrictions to the point that you can literally run anything. It's now possible to be as fluffy fun or as abusive as you want to be. For us long timers who've been around since RT days this level of freedom is quite an adjustment but if used properly it will lead to lots of good times.

Find a local club and talk to the guys watch a few games

There's a lot more to the hobby than just playing, modelling painting getting some scenery constructed etc...

I'd add a lot of what you read as in opinions on forums are from active members and in the 40k world of players there probably a small % for example a lot of people I know have space marine armies based on the Ork/Marine starter set for 5/6 years ago

Its not like your gonna step in an Johnny Eldar is going to challenge you with his Nova comp 8 wave serpent spam list!

Grey Knights are pretty competitive theses days Psychic spam and all and modeling wise there a nice compact army to paint and build

There's a lot of griping on the Internet, but what really matters is your local area. I have two nearby stores I can almost always find a game during their 40k nights.

I think it's a great time to play 40k. The first time in a long time new factions have been introduced (ok, re-introduced for Harlequins). There are more ways to play than ever (maelstrom, eternal war, campaign books, etc).

So find a faction (or allied pair) you like, check out your local club, and see how 40k is doing in your area.

As a long time GK player I would try to find a guy who plays them you can talk face to face with. The newest incarnation is quite different than the current version. But really, step one should be to check out your local scene as pointed out by others and see if its even worth it. Lotta disenchantment atm. Good luck dude.