Assaulting through walls

My apologies if this has been asked before, I didn't find it with my first two searches.

Recently some friends of mine were playing a game of Dark Eldar vs. Tau, and they had an argument for over an hour about assaulting through the walls of a ruin. Since they still haven't resolved their dispute, I turn to you, oh mighty Interwebs, for the answers I need.

This is the setup: A unit of Dark Eldar are hiding in a ruin, with two solid walls on the building, with the ruin declared as difficult terrain. A unit of Tau are on the other side of this seemingly solid wall. Neither unit has LOS to any model in the other unit.

On their turn, the Tau are unable to shoot at the Dark Eldar, with the DE player and his friend declaring that shooting uses TLOS. On their turn, the DE assault through the wall at the Tau, declaring that Assault Movement does not use TLOS, and this is therefore legal.

Reading the assault rules I think the correct answer is the DE must make a dangerous terrain test for assaulting through difficult terrain, then move around the wall since there was no 1 inch gap in the wall for them to move through. Am I correct in this?

If the Ruins were only defined as Difficult Terrain (which is the default), then the DE player was correct. If there is no LOS, then they couldn't be shot. However, Assault doesn't require LOS, so assuming that the Difficult Terrain test was high enough to make base contact, the Dark Eldar could indeed charge. Also, a Dangerous Terrain test would only be needed if the Ruin had been defined as Dangerous Terrain (which isn't typical).

If the Tau player is unhappy with this, then next time they play, they need to make sure the effects of the apparently solid walls is defined as Impassible Terrain.

Ugh, sometimes the rules give me a headache.

Well thank you for the quick reply and I'll be sure to pass it along.

Area terrain block line of sight, however, area terrain is abstract, therefor it can be moved through freeley by infantry anyway.

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Originally Posted by Balodek

On their turn, the Tau are unable to shoot at the Dark Eldar, with the DE player and his friend declaring that shooting uses TLOS. On their turn, the DE assault through the wall at the Tau, declaring that Assault Movement does not use TLOS, and this is therefore legal.

Reading the assault rules I think the correct answer is the DE must make a dangerous terrain test for assaulting through difficult terrain, then move around the wall since there was no 1 inch gap in the wall for them to move through. Am I correct in this?

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1) You need LOS to shoot.

2) You do not need LOS to assault.

3) You only roll for Dangerous Terrain Tests if the terrain has a classification as Dangerous i addition to any other classifications.

4) I assume your Ruins were Area Terrain, and models may move through Area terrain as if it were abstract, so the walls don't matter.

5) LOS is only really used for Shooting in 40k. As far as Movement and Assault, LOS doesn't really exist at all unless a rule tells you specifically that you need LOS to do something.

Your DE friend was correct.

Page 14 of the rulebook tells you how to move through walls.

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Originally Posted by Culven

If the Ruins were only defined as Difficult Terrain (which is the default), then the DE player was correct. If there is no LOS, then they couldn't be shot. However, Assault doesn't require LOS, so assuming that the Difficult Terrain test was high enough to make base contact, the Dark Eldar could indeed charge. Also, a Dangerous Terrain test would only be needed if the Ruin had been defined as Dangerous Terrain (which isn't typical).

If the Tau player is unhappy with this, then next time they play, they need to make sure the effects of the apparently solid walls is defined as Impassible Terrain.

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It is part of the rules to define all terrain BEFORE you place any models on the board (setup). You may define that those walls are impassible, as what is said up above.

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Originally Posted by Tynskel

It is part of the rules to define all terrain BEFORE you place any models on the board (setup). You may define that those walls are impassible, as what is said up above.

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We were both familiar with this rule however we were not aware of the specific interactions between LOS, Shooting, and Assaulting. The Tau player comes from WHFB and I from Warmachine/Hordes, so we are both new to 40k, and the DE player has been playing for a while and has a tendency to "forget" rules until they matter.

Until we (the Tau and I) started playing most of the games played seem to have been pretty fast and loose with the rules at this LGS, since we are "discovering" rules the local community was unaware existed.

The other major debate so far has been whether you can Tank Shock if your tank starts the turn in B2B with enemy troops but I think the rules indicate that you can.

And it turns out that once I got the rulebook and read through it my SM Bikes could turbo-boost 24 inches for a 3+ save, not the 18 inch 4+ the local guys were telling me.

p. 63, you may pivot in place-- just move models out of the way and place them back into B2B

also, if the vehicle has survived (and is not immobilized) it can move. p.68 Tank Shock just a specific type of move, and does not begin until you have pivoted to the direction you want to go and start moving. The only exception is units locked in combat, the models will move out of the way for the pivot move (pivoting is not a real move as you are considered stationary if you spin in circles), but they cannot be tank shocked.

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Originally Posted by Balodek

....
And it turns out that once I got the rulebook and read through it my SM Bikes could turbo-boost 24 inches for a 3+ save, not the 18 inch 4+ the local guys were telling me.

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Careful with this... this is a potential source of LOTS of confusion.

a) the 4+ confusion probably is derived from Skimmers moving Flat out. Basically, Skimmers moving more than 12" gets a 4+ cover save next turn.

b) Your SM Bikes could turbo-boost 24 inches, yes. But you don't need to move all 24", as they only need to be 18" (or more) from their starting position to be able to benefit from the 3+ save.