Mehsiile Launchers?

How do?

Just been rattling around in my brain, so thought I should spit it out in digital form.

Missile Launchers - They're not really what they once were. In 6th Edition and predecessors, Missile Launchers were a pretty safe bet overall. Being able to switch freely between Krak and Frag was nice, and it made them a jack of all trades support weapon.

But now we have 7th Edition. And whilst their infantry killing prowess remains untouched, they're now a bit cack at taking out vehicles, due to their AP3.

No longer can you 'sod it, worth a Krak' a Dreadnought in a single shot before it smooshes up your unit. It can't stop a Landraider in it's tracks (two puns for the price of one!).

Best you can hope for if your opponent's vehicle isn't open topped is to knock off a weapon, or perhaps immobilise the target. Don't get me wrong, that still has it's uses, but they really have sunk in my estimation recently.

So what to do? Are they still preferable for their flexibility, despite their less killy nature, or have they had their day in the sun, passing the baton to more role dedicated weapons?

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Originally Posted by Mr Mystery

How do?

Just been rattling around in my brain, so thought I should spit it out in digital form.

Missile Launchers - They're not really what they once were. In 6th Edition and predecessors, Missile Launchers were a pretty safe bet overall. Being able to switch freely between Krak and Frag was nice, and it made them a jack of all trades support weapon.

But now we have 7th Edition. And whilst their infantry killing prowess remains untouched, they're now a bit cack at taking out vehicles, due to their AP3.

No longer can you 'sod it, worth a Krak' a Dreadnought in a single shot before it smooshes up your unit. It can't stop a Landraider in it's tracks (two puns for the price of one!).

Best you can hope for if your opponent's vehicle isn't open topped is to knock off a weapon, or perhaps immobilise the target. Don't get me wrong, that still has it's uses, but they really have sunk in my estimation recently.

So what to do? Are they still preferable for their flexibility, despite their less killy nature, or have they had their day in the sun, passing the baton to more role dedicated weapons?

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They do still have flexibility in that they can hurt big critters, 3+ armored troops, medium vehicles, and still hurt mobs. And they can work at air defense as well though GW thinks they're a lot better at it than they are with the points they charge for Flakk missiles. So they're still good at a lot of things. But since they have no chance to one shot a vehicle anymore they're not the default choice for a heavy weapon for me anymore.

IMO, Lascannons are worth that extra 5pts. They can nail the 2+ units that are becoming more and more prevalent, such as Riptides, Broadsides, and Chapter Masters. That increased chance of Penning a vehicle from the +1S, as well as then being able to Pen AV14 makes it even better, the bonus to Vehicle Damage from AP2 even more so.

We had an old hand at Guard start playing again recently, and we had a chat after he got whipped by a Space Marines army wielded by a kid at the store who simply never wins games. His list was very oriented around Missile Launchers, so the Rhinos and Chapter Master - Iron Hands too - had a field day.

7th even more than 6th is about glancing vehicles to death instead of counting on blowing them up with one shot. If you want to blow them up in one shot take meltas in drop pods etc. Missiles are still good because you can glance things like rhinos to death very easily if you have enough of them. Still, I now prefer lascannons, autocannons then missiles with my guard, lascannons, plasma then missiles with my marines.

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7th even more than 6th is about glancing vehicles to death

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Given the rise of AV14, Superheavies and Knights, I don't think that's really feasible with Missile Launchers anyway. Besides, it can only get 1HP maximum, there's other weapon far better suited to those roles.

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Originally Posted by CoffeeGrunt

Given the rise of AV14, Superheavies and Knights, I don't think that's really feasible with Missile Launchers anyway. Besides, it can only get 1HP maximum, there's other weapon far better suited to those roles.

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Superheavies and Knights are a whole different story. My old marine army I used to take 3 units of devastators with 4 missiles, that should be enough to glance a knight to death in 1-2 turns I would think. A lot of armies struggle with super heavies, not just missiles. Even lascannons will struggle vs. those, last night I played a game and it took my 2 vendettas 3 full turns of shooting to bring down a hellhammer baneblade variant-hitting the side for most of it. Against 80-90% of the vehicles you face, missiles will still work ok, but obviously they are worse than before even though they only had a 1 in 6 chance to blow up a vehicle, so the odds are, even in 6th you were still glancing most vehicles to death with missiles. I was using a serpent spam list against SW in 6th and his 3 units of long fangs with missiles could glance down 1-2 serpents a turn.

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My old marine army I used to take 3 units of devastators with 4 missiles, that should be enough to glance a knight to death in 1-2 turns I would think.

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2/3 to Hit, 1/3 to Glance, you're looking at 9 shots to get 2 Glances, 1 if the Shield is up. I think two turns with 4 Missile Launchers may be slightly optimistic.

If you're talking Serpents, the only way to kill those is Glancing - that's what they do.

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Originally Posted by CoffeeGrunt

2/3 to Hit, 1/3 to Glance, you're looking at 9 shots to get 2 Glances, 1 if the Shield is up. I think two turns with 4 Missile Launchers may be slightly optimistic.

If you're talking Serpents, the only way to kill those is Glancing - that's what they do.

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Assuming your army doesn't have twin linked, or is spread-out so that 1-2 of the units will be shooting at its side as it advances up which means less AV and shield choices. If it hangs back shooting so you can only hit the front, its already a victory because its wasting itself not getting into CC. Plus if you can get armour bane, signums. Obviously lascannons are better (which is why they cost more points), no one is denying that but missiles do fairly well vs. most things you need to glance anyways and you get the nice frag missile options which are great when you are playing something like orks. Use krak on the trukks, frag on the boys inside. Lascannons are largely a waste vs. certain armys, nids are the same. Krak is good enough for the MC's and then you can frag the little guys, S8 is also the same as S9 when it comes to instant killing things as well, like T4 and below.