Looking to start WM/Hordes!

Morning!

With the jacking of GW prices, I've been thinking about backing away from 40K for a while, to see what happens, but I still need my fix of hobbalicious hobbydom! So I'm looking at Privateer Press as the next giant in the proverbial playground. But I know absolutely nothing about warmachine or hordes. And I'm at work and the Privateer Press website doesn't load properly here :(

Tell me a bit about the games and the models! Is it easy to play? Is the game broken into units like 40K? What are the objectives of the game? How about the models? Are they easy to work with? Help me out! :D

Warmachine and Hordes, both use a 2d6 system, That is, whenever in 40k you would use 1d6 to hit something, in Warmachine/Hordes you would use 2d6. Your main leader is called a Warcaster and he controls what are called Warjacks, Think dreadnoughts with AI rather then a person. The Biggest difference from 40k's system is how the phases are used. When you activate a model(ie. use it) you do everything with that model, move shoot and assault. Then you move on to the next model, in the case of units, like a squad of riflemen, you would use the entire unit this way, however the models may act independently somewhat, there is a squad coherency you must maintain, however you must declare your targets that you want to assault/shoot per model in the unit. Riflemen 1 will fire at Winter Guard 3(Khador unit), then you roll. some units allow you to combine fire which strengths the shot and accuracy of it. There are certain abilities and spells that can "Boost" your To Hit rolls and To Wound rolls, adding d6 to your rolls,taking your 2d6 and making it 3d6, or 4d6, depending on how your abilities stack. When looking at your Stat Cards for your units you will see a row of numbers;Spd, Str, Mat, Rat, Def, Arm, Cmd. Spd is your movement distance, Str is your Strength(no surprise there), Mat is your Melee Attack stat(think Weapon Skill in 40k) Rat is your Ranged Attack stat(think Ballistic Skill in 40k), Def is the stat your opponent needs to beat to hit you with ranged and melee attacks, Arm is the number your opponent needs to beat to wound you, and Command is like your leadership stat in 40k.

The main goal of the game is to kill the enemy warcaster, or the Warlock, which is what the Hordes' commander is called. The system relies on Stat cards for each unit/model(you'll see once you start buying models) So you don't need their army book to play, however the book has themed army lists that give your guys a boost for taking certain units and contains tons of fluff and back story on units and casters/warlocks. as well as contains the stats for all the units that were made at the book's printing.

Just like GW has White Dwarf, PP has No Quarter. this magazine has new units that comming out, and pages of how paint on their stuff. They are always worth a look through, if not a buy. This is just off the top of my head, i haven't had my coffee this morning yet, so there is LOTS LOTS LOTS more but that's a sample of things.:D

One thing i recommend is getting card sleeves for your unit cards, and a dry erase marker, This will allow you to keep track of damage Way easier then using dice or anything. Their models for the most part are Metal, but PP is slowly replacing their metal with plastic. The Starter ktis for Warmachine have all be turned into their plastic versions, However PP's plastic is a resin/plastic mix, i still find i need super glue for those models. When your building your Army List, a website to check out is Forward Kommander They have an army constructor there that has the points values for all the units as well as theme list restrictions, but not stats for the models.:(
Most Warmachine/Hordes games don't go above 50 points, our local group plays 35-50 points, if you get a solid 35 point list you like, your set. The starter boxes can get you a 15 point game easily, and their All $49.99USD retail.

Also, a really cool feature, is that Hordes and Warmachine, while two seperate systems, will work together. So you can have Cygnar forces(Warmachine) vs. Circle of Orboros(Hordes). And the systems work perfectly together, The rules for each were written with the other system in mind.:D:D

If you look on PP's main website, you'll see Accessorys. Get Them! the templates make games go way faster, and the markers really really really help keep track of stuff, imo.:)

Once you get home, I'd recommend downloading the quickstart rules from [URL="http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/the-game"]http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/the-game[/URL].

That covers all the core rules. The rulebooks add stuff about infantry and cavalry, who aren't in the starter boxes.

Notable differences from 40K (I haven't played 40K since the end of 3rd ed, so I may be off here):
+ All factions get new models at the same time, so there's not "codex creep" or long waits between refreshes.
+ Models are activated one at a time, so there's not movement phase/shooting phase/assault phase. A unit of infantry all moves as a group though.
+ All armies are lead by a named character. This tends to throw of some 40K players who like to create all their own fluff. You can still make up your own characters and just play "counts as" though.
+ No wargear. Each model/unit has what's on its card, no more, no less. That said, some units are basically just variations of others, which is like having your wargear options already laid out. (Stormguard are Stormblades with halberds, etc).
+ Even in scenario play, caster kill is a victory condition. This means that no matter how badly you're losing, you can still win if you can come up with a sneaky assassination. This throws off people who are used to attrition-style gameplay, but I find it a lot of fun.
+ Things die. A lot. There are no armor saves. The closest thing to it is a rule called "Tough", and only one army (trolls) has that on all it's troops, and that's only on a 5+. Due to the way armor works, it I hit your infantry with one of my heavy warjacks, it's most likely dead, no rolling needed. On the flip side, if you're shooting my ARM 25 Devastator with a POW 10 rifle, there's no way you're going to hurt it.
+ Less shooting oriented than 40K. The longest range weapon in this game is 20", and that's on an inaccurate mortar. Most shooting is 14" or less.

As a long time GW fanboy (over 16 yrs), I made the leap to PP in January as I just got tired of the stupid rules and faq's coming from GW. Plus the continual price hikes just annoyed the heck outta me.

With 5 montsh of serious gaming in warmachine under my belt all I can say is I have no desire to play 40k at all. Perhaps when you can have your dreadnought pick up tanks and throw them around the table I'll look at it again. But 'til then, I'm all about warmachine.

What I love about it is that the game has TONS of strategy. It's like chess on steroids to put it lightly.

The number of combos and sneaky tricks you can put in your list is just crazy.
Plus, even though you may slaughter your enemies entire army, the game ain't over 'til you kill his caster or achieve the mission objectives. And trust me, a lone caster CAN pull out a win from nowhere.

Another thing that I really, really love about Warmachine/Hordes is that you can literally randomly pick your faction and it'll be awesome. None of this "my dex is 10 yrs old BS and now outdated, overcosted, or simply impossible to build more than 1 type or style of army".

EVERY faction in Warmachine/Hordes is awesome and has multiple, multiple builds to rock and shock your opponent.

Plus, you don't have to paint a hundred dudes to get your army done. My army (Cryx, the undead guys) is heavy on the infantry b/c that's what i like - my 50 pts army has less than 35 models!

A 50 pts game is like playing 2000 pts of 40k. Most games in my area (Phoenix) play in the 25/35 range with a few of us playing at 50pts from time to time.

I've also noted that my warmachine minis tend to paint themselves. What I mean is that it really doesn't feel like a chore to paint my stuff. Unlike my 40k or fantasy armies that make me feel like a brush slave.

I could go on and on about Warmachine/Hordes and how awesome it is. But at the end of the day, you need to give it a try yourself.

I will say that at first you'll be completely overwhelmed and that's okay!

Just play a couple of small demo games to get a feel for the game mechanics. Then pick a faction whose minis interest you and start building an army. You won't regret it!

Ok I'll give you a bit of a faction run down.
Warmachine
Khador - lots of high arm warjacks and steampunk guys in jack armor. Has a fairly death star ability with lots of winterguard and kovnik joe. Most units very good in combat with most ranged weapons being short distance but higher power.

Cyngar - the shooty faction has very good casters. It has some very good units and combo's when they work together.

Cryxx - the hardest faction to play against has cheap arcnodes (you can cast spells through your jacks.) Alot of high defense targets but not that high of an arm generally. A lot of ways to deny your attacks. They collect souls to power themselves or their jacks

Protectorate - Really good with buffs making their jacks from subpar to great(Choir, Vassals). Have a lot of magic weapons which makes cryxx cry. Has the Avatar of Menoth he creates his own focus and will kill whatever he attacks.

Retribution of Scyrah - angry and xenophobic elves in the extreme. Believe all humans stole magic from their dieing gods so genocide is a very real option in their culture. They have great units and some of the best solos in the game See Mage hunter assassin. Jacks are very multi tasking which is good and bad.

Mercs have
Pirates - which have solos that upgrade their pirate squads making them better with each solo. The only way to have a 4+ tough roll that I know of for a squad. Also has the longest range weapon in the commodore cannon that can still hit something at 20 the isn't inaccurate.
Rhulics (dwarves) - high arm slow speed fairly hit hard.
The other factions for mercs don't have any experience with.

Hordes
Trollblooods - big muscular farming trolls everyone has pissed off. tough rolls, low defense, decent arm but ways to buff everything

Skorne- Pretty much Khorne Elves. They are angry, torture baby elephants. Have the slowest Beasts but have ways to make them faster. Molik kharn their character beast is amazing along with the bronzeback.

Circle has a lot of tricks. They love the woods and can make them appear. High defense low arm. Unless you talk about their beast one is fast and high defense low arm for beasts and the other type the exact opposite.

Legion the Dark elves is very different play style from every faction so it take a lot of experience to counter. Very good beasts and units but you pay the points for them so expect a smaller army.

Minions
Gators are awesome have the only way to get a first turn caster kill in the game anymore but very risky. Very limited options for play though since it's new and not a main faction Though the options they have are on the good side.
Farrow have no experience with.

The factions are all fairly balanced though you can have some very bad match ups which is why their tournaments have the ability to have 2 lists.
Every army can do other forms of fighting but I gave you the basic setups most of them have.

A good site to get some overview is BattleCollege.

As much as I agree with all what was written above I feel the need to warn you a bit. The Warmachine & Hordes rules are not very hard to learn. They're very well written, without leaving "grey areas" (and even then there's OFFICIAL rules forum that provides answers really fast). It's quite easy to catch the mechanics. But the learning curve is VERY steep. Be prepared to lose A LOT in the beginning. Do not be surprised seeing game being won/lost in second turn. This system requires a lot of skill and a lot of memorizing - abilities/combos on your and your opponent side. I use to tell new players I meet that "when you start playing WM you usually play against two opponents at once - your enemy's and your own army". However, when you finally get some experience... ;)
And on the other hand, what I really love about WM is that regardless of whether you win or lose almost every game gives you tons of fun.

Pertaining to what mazgier said, I think the best way to soften the learning curve a bit is to find a local Press Ganger, the Privateer Press volunteer group, in your area to give you a quick demo game. It's gets you a quick, easy taste of the game system and a nice place to build your knowledge of the system from.

For a quick background rundown off the factions and world, here are the welcome pages for Warmachine and Hordes:
[URL="http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/welcome-to-warmachine"]http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/welcome-to-warmachine[/URL]
[URL="http://privateerpress.com/hordes/monstrous-miniatures-combat"]http://privateerpress.com/hordes/monstrous-miniatures-combat[/URL]

For the quick-start rules for either system (which come in the starter "battle boxes"):
[URL="http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/the-game"]http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/the-game[/URL]
[URL="http://privateerpress.com/hordes/the-game"]http://privateerpress.com/hordes/the-game[/URL]

And for a slightly more extensive overview of the game world, and how it came to be known as the Iron Kingdoms we have:
[URL="http://privateerpress.com/iron-kingdoms/introduction-to-the-iron-kingdoms"]http://privateerpress.com/iron-kingdoms/introduction-to-the-iron-kingdoms[/URL]

The game world was originally an alternate D&D setting about...well, big steam powered robots among other things. As such it has quite a bit of background history. Not quite as much as 40k, but who else does have that much?

Again, your best bet is to find a Press Ganger in your area and get a demo set up to check it out first (your FLGS may have an idea of who that is). If you want to buy in, the battle box starter sets are fantastic as a place to start and for the money.

Skragger--I highly recommend giving it a try.

Hell, contact a local press-ganger (on the PP website) first and they'll demo the game for you before you spend dollar 1.

Basically I agree 100% with what's been posted before--it's good stuff.

I started WM back in '03 after I swore off buying any other mini's system--I was too stuck into 40k. A demo game @ gencon later and I was hooked. The game is that good.

They're focus is on making a system that's generally rules-argument free, which is directly counter to 40k.

Too give you the most telling example: The errata for Mk2 rules is four pages long.

You can find a local press ganger on their website here: [url]http://volunteers.privateerpress.com/location/users[/url]

G'luck!

To be more specific that's four pages total for the core rules and 11 factions.

With the vast majority of rules questions on the official PP forums answered with the either "you missed rule X" or "the rule does exactly what it says". It's quite shocking playing wm/h for a year then looking in on DakkaDakka's You Make Da Call forum.