What is your view on a player with knock offs?

Ok so I'm finally considering jumping back into 40k after 8? (or 6 can't remember) years of not playing. However what faction catches my eye? Imperial Guard Elysian Jump Troops (I love the concept of Airborne so ya)... of coarse I find a way to make the already expensive 40k hobby more expensive. Go me....

Anyway looking on Forge World and having my heart almost stop when seeing the 10 man squads costing over $60 a piece (shipping not included) I know I'm in trouble especially since I'm guessing I'm going to be needing at least 4 of those plus command squads then we can discuss Valkyries. While chatting with a local 40k player he basically told me about one of those Chinese knock off sites to get the troops (but buy the actual Valkyries and kits GW makes in the store itself).

Now being a Battletech player I'm no stranger to repros as its a problem there as well, and being anti-repro stance there I'm uncomfortable just ordering a bunch of knock offs because of my Battletech background. However when I said this the player replied basically his opinion was repros of GW kits (like the ones you can buy is stores) is very heavily frowned upon, but kits of FW stuff like the troops that are heavily "overpriced" is a bit more acceptable. Still I'm very unsure how I feel... buying knock offs feels uncomfortable but might be the ONLY way I can build an army within a reasonable amount of time.

Ok sorry long explanation to ask this question:

How would you feel about a player who walked in with a Elysian/Death Corps of Krieg/Other FW Army where the FW only troops (or very high count needed models) were repros, while they had legitimate Tanks/Models that are purchasable in a store?

I know the legal side of this but I just wanted to see how the community as a whole sees this... hopefully I'm not opening pandora's box of arguments.

I'd explain that knock offs are shonky, and help drive up prices of legitimate products.

Buy them from companies that actually sculpt their own stuff, IMHO. 3rd party is fine, and sometimes even great. But not people that just straight out make molds of GW/FW models.

I've picked up a few things at auction from eBay that I'm pretty sure were re-casts, can't say for sure, came in a FW bag but with no sticker on and something just felt a little wrong with them. It was a little irritating but it wasn't going to stop me from using the parts I wanted.
As long as they aren't AWFUL casts (in which case why would you want them anyway), the question of 'how would an opponent feel playing against you' would never come up if you were playing with a painted army, as they would never know.
That just leaves your conscience to deal with, which is, well... an entirely different matter. I'd never intentionally buy a re-cast, but the 'questionable' parts I've received at points have never been so terrible that I'd throw them away, therefore who would I be to deny you using something that I may well have done myself, all be it by accident.

I have bought recasts, but at the same time I have bought a lot directly from FW (Including a Reaver and a warhound), and I buy stuff from my FLGS to support them as well.

I won't buy anything Chapterhouse though. Picked up a couple things early on, and the poor quality plus the company's attitude has put me off buying from them again. Even if I do want a Storm Raven extension.

And things like the Void Shield Generator, that were heavily limited and a massive chuck bought up by resellers to make huge profits off of, those are fair game.

My first though is... how would I know?

But honestly... I don't care. Where a person wants to spend their money is their business. I wouldn't care if you used models from another manufacturer even (I can't remember the name of the one company right now, but I think of the one that makes units of 20 Dwarfs or 30 Witch Elves for just under $50 US and they look really nice), the only problem there is that I typically play in a GW store and you can't use them in that store (for obvious reasons). I've used models from other manufacturers before. I also love some of the bits other companies make, especially Kromlech for example, but you have to actually buy the base GW models to use their bits (though they do sell entire models for some units; if you want to use those, go for it!).

I buy my models straight from local stores, including the GW store... but I will also at times buy a bulk collection of models off of someone, too. That's how I choose to spend my money. How you choose to spend yours is up to you. If you paid for the models, I'm not going to say you can't use them. If you paint them (or even prime them, it'll be practically impossible to tell. All I want to do is roll dice and have a good time.

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As for Chapter House... I'll have to look up what their "attitude" is. But if I was GW, well, I wouldn't go nuts going after these companies making bits to add to GW models, since in the vast majority of situations you have to buy a GW kits (giving GW the same money you would have given them anyway) before you can use the stuff from these other companies. If they want to make that money themselves, they can produce similar pieces and charge less (ha!), thus keeping people buying straight from them. CH might be a special case, though. But that's how I view Kromlech, though. I know I'm okay using Orks with Kromlech bits in the local GW store, but at Warhammer World (the place where everyone insists we must treat their rules as "official" when arguing that Escalation et al are a permanent part of 40K that isn't optional), you wouldn't be able to use them, because there's a non-GW bit on the model, and any non-GW bits make a model unusable at Warhammer World.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erik Setzer

you wouldn't be able to use them, because there's a non-GW bit on the model, and any non-GW bits make a model unusable at Warhammer World.

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I've always wondered where the line is drawn with this, if I 'scratch build' parts like armour plating for my tanks or bionic limbs replacing portions of Space Marines using Evergreen scale models (a third party company that I'm giving money to, to add to my GW miniatures) styrene parts, how is that really any different to if I cut up some, say Kromlech bionic parts and fit them on my Marines rather than buying the Iron hands upgrade kit?
What about the Dragonforge power cables, I mean I could have bought one of many kits like the Dreadknight FULL of powercables to use, but I went away from GW, however I can't see anyone complaining about that.
I don't mean to play devil's advocate, but there has to be an invisible line somewhere, right?

The only thing I have a bit of a problem with (heh) is the actual copied knock-off of the same FW or GW miniature. Scratch-built is fine, or with separately-designed parts, as is using figures from other companies either in place of or to convert GW ones.

That said, on eBay if you buy used armies as I do, you don't really know if you're getting original FW pieces or Chinese knockoffs, especially if they're painted. So I could see someone having knockoffs and knot knowing it.

To the OP. Are you defining knock-offs as 3rd party similar items, like using Wargames Factory Shocktroops for DKK, or are you speaking of bootlegs, like yoymart where they are direct recastings of Forgeworld and GW items?

To the point of knockoffs, I use them all the time. Void/Urban Mammoth, All of Mantics stuff, and Wargames Factory are all acceptable knock offs to be used. If you are against someone using a bootleg/repro item, how are you going to know if it is or not?

John M>

If they were painted, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell they were recasts in the first place - I've seen product from most of the major recasters, and they're all as good as and often better than ForgeWorld's average output.

In the spirit of the original question, nah. No problem.