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Feedback appreciated.
Lysander 230
5 Terminators - Hammers/Shields 225
Land Raider Redeemer - Multi-Melta/Extra Armor 260
5 Marines - Razorback/TL-Lascannon 145
5 Marines - Razorback/TL-Lascannon 145
5 Marines - Razorback/TL-Lascannon 145
5 Marines - Razorback/TL-Lascannon 145
Stalker 75
Whirlwind 65
Whirlwind 65
Total: 1500
I'm curious why you are not taking advantage of Siege Masters? It's their strongest Chapter Tactic!
It feels like you had to compromise all the benefits of being Imperial Fists just to make Lysander and co. fit into 1500 points. At 715 I think the price tag is too high.
If you dump the ride and hammernators, Lysander becomes and effective bubble of Ld for a gun line without veteran sergeants. If you go for a better force multiplying HQ, the hammernators become a medium hammer that leaves the death stars to your better gun-line and goes for juicier targets. Welcome back to 4th edition brother, the promised land of milk and honey and bolter fire.
I've said gun-line twice above because that's where the Imperial fists excel. We always have and we always will. Thirty tactical marines backed by ten devastators holding an aegis defense line is a hard nut to crack. With some bikes or speeders providing more mobile support, they become very imposing. But I am a bit hide-bound about Imperial fists.
What would make this army really fit mechanics and fluff wise, BT. My other great love. A Chapter Master in artifice with a T-hammer and Shield Eternal is the same cost as Lysander; with five attacks on the charge, and re-rolls to hits in those challenges you'd want him to be in. Plus a crazy hammer unit like that looks way scarier in Black.
I think you hit the nail right on the head. I really appreciate your thoughtful and detailed post. I too am an avid Imperial Fists player. I love everything about the chapter - the siege/defense specialisation, the stubbornness, etc.
I felt in designing my list after the new codex, I could design a force around the new chapter tactics, OR around Lysander, but not both. Not at 1500 points. So I chose the latter, attempting to essentially design an armoured detachment in a way I felt an Imperial Fist would; the Lysander death star in the middle, well supported by mobile fire support for anti-tank, anti-infantry and anti-air, with smaller units of troops to disembark, mop up and hold objectives after the main assault.
@Luckee22 really like the ideas you outlined above. The only space marine army I will ever play will be IF - so if you have time, could you lay out some of your ideas in list form, so I can see what you're talking about? I'm interested in both options you gave - Lysander as a LD bubble, and a better force multiplier for a medium hammer unit.
Certainly.
The leadership bubble is all about planting on a forward objective in your deployment zone and holding fast. You'll likely want to combat squad as often as possible to get the most versatility out of you dudes and make it hard for assault armies to ride in and stomp all your dudes at the get go. Have Lysander in the middle for counter attack challenges.
Only the first two tac squads will hold the ADL because too many bodies just gives pie plates and ignores cover too good of an opportunity.
Use the third to hustle forward and line break. Close support from the dread and use the bikes to keep the heavy infantry down or punch a wave serpent that gets around behind you.
The devs are your primary AT, and can pour a crazy number of good shots into the enemy. The quad gun can also detail as dedicated interceptor (which I tend to prefer).
Most important to remember, your enemies big punch is going to cost him more in warlord kill points than they'll gain by wiping out your home base. Champion of humanity is an awesome power in Lysander's hands.
Lysander
230pts
Tac1: combi-plas, plas, plas can
180
Tac2: flamer, missile
160
Tac3: Vet srg, combi-melta, claw, melta, multi-melta, rhino w/dozer
235
Dev 1: 3x missiles and lascannon
205
Dread w/Tl auto, heavy flamer
115
Bikes: vet srg w/fist, 2x grav guns, 5x total bikers
170
ADL w/quadgun
100
Thunderfire
100
1495
The Hammernator charge is a bit different. It relies on getting into your opponents face and out shooting them when you're muzzle-to-muzzle.
Hammernators will not survive on their own and will get boltered into irrelevance in one turn if unsupported. However, in this list, they sally forth to relieve your beleaguered pod tac squads. This list has a great chance of taking line breaker and first blood. It swings the balance toward aggressive play, needing the LR to rush up and support pod one and using pod two to further adapt to the enemies changing stance. Of note, this army is also easier to out maneuver, as all your mobility is in that first wild hay-maker punch. But if you can't out maneuver marines how else are you gonna beat 'em?
For the termies I recomend a standard LR for the las cannons, which will come in handy. Redeemers I'm not a fan of because they open her up to getting punched too much. Crusaders are my favorite but don't jive as well with IF rules (redundant re-rolls for boltguns).
The libby is a cheap hq shoe-in, it does some psyker protection for home base. It gives the home tac squad Ld10. And with two telepathy powers it has a decent shooting attack and can help out staving off the enemy. But stick to core book traits.
Libby lvl 2
90
Tac 1: vet srg, claw, combi-melta, melta, multi-melta, pod
230
Tac 2: vet srg, fist, melta, missile, pod
235
Tac 3: combi-plas, plas, plas can
180
Dev 1: 4x heavy bolter
180
ADL w/quadgun
100
Hammernators w/ride, Extra armor
485
1500
I really enjoy 1,500 point games. I think they're the ideal mesh with the troops requirement because it handicaps the players ability to take every neat toy in the book. Every counter to this army will be brutally effective but will also cost them a butt-load of troops. Neither of these lists are easy to table and both have strong objective grabbing potential.
Both lists are really interesting and give me many things to consider. Thanks for taking the time to post them. I especially like the idea of a heavy bolter devastator squad!
As an aside, is there any hope for a Lysander/Hammernator/Raider death star in competitive play? Or is it a lost cause?
Absolutely, it's just that most competitive play hovers around 1850-2,000 points. Much more manageable there.
Well thanks again I really appreciate your insight.