Fantasy Noob

So basically I am a 7 year 40k player and have decided to maybe start a fantasy army.

I have always been a dark eldar player for the VAST MAJORITY of my games but I have kind of fallen for horde orks in the past few months...

anyways I was looking at the new Dark elf models (black dragon and sorceress) and they are nice, same thing with the new vampire counts (The wraith, banshee, and zombie dragon are sweet) models so I want to know are either of those 2 a good starting place for a guy who has never played a game of fantasy in his life? What about skaven or lizardmen (I play lizardmen in blood bowl but know nothing about the fantasy team)

People say demons are still broken? What do they mean and how bad is it?

they also talk about tiers, but say the difference between the top tier and and the next tier down is bigger than the drop off from wolves to the old demonhunters codex...is it really that bad? What do they mean?

how does magic work? Is there still an element to the hero hammer people talked about in 7th?

whats special about fantasy compared to 40k?

In my area ive seen a lot of people drop fantasy completely and move to hordes and warmachine, is the game bad or did it change so much that it pissed off player or was it just the people playing hero hammer?

So basically I know nothing about the game and before i invest 600 bucks I want to know what i am getting into.

sites with info would be appreciated too

Thanks for any help

A single model might be a bit weak to start a whole army over. Especially if it's a dragon that you wouldn't be able to field unless you got to really big games. Even if you do like the zombie- or blackdragon, with the new SoM expantion, you will still be able to field it if you have your heart set on it. I think it's better to consider the army that has troops that appeal to you. Monster clashes can alway be expanded to as you collect a larger force nowadays...

I dunno about daemons... Our local nerdrage infused sore loser usually goes on about skaven and high elves... There are a few armies out there that really struggle and others that perform quite well. I guess there is a bit of a consensus that you have to be a really good strategic player to get good mileage out of wood elves and bretonians.

Magic is very random now. A couple of poor rolls on your power dice generation can be detrimental if you have a lot of points invested in magic. It's a high risk-high reward system. Magic can sometimes wreck armies or the points you invested in magic can be virtually worthless.

I feel fantasy is special over 40k because a lot more thought has to be made for manouvering. The system of flanks/rear/sides you use in 40k for vehicles is basically extended to ALL units, making things like flank attacks and rear attacks all the more rewarding. Close combat is also a little more refined then just pileing all models together and seeing who killed most. Flank/rear charges, ranks, banners,... all play a role in determining combat. This makes the rules a bit more complex, but it also makes it feel a bit less "point and click" then 40k.

Is fantasy still actually being played in your area? That's the more important question. Also, you know the people who moved away from it better then these boards do. Were they the "easily butt hurt" kinda crowd when somebody "(re)moved their cheese"? Or were they sensible gamers who you would enjoy playing against?

If you know people that already play it (chances are that you do if you have been into 40k for so long), why not politely ask them for an introduction game? The rules should be dead easy to learn as a 40k veteran, so you might as well see for yourself before you invest the money into it. The best advice I can give you, is to not take advice from people on the internet!

And with that paradox, I think I will end this 1000 word essay. TLDR is: don't be put off by your local "everything is OP except my army because Matt Ward made it so" geek and check it out for yourself. :D

Ok, lot of question to answer there!

Choice of army - that depends entirely on what playing style you want, perhaps if you could elaborate on that, we could narrow it down for you e.g. hordes vs elites, shooty vs combat, good vs evil etc.

I don't really know how demons work, so I'm not sure on that.

Some armies have really suffered from the change to 8th, most haven't done too badly. Good news is if rumours are to be belived, GW will be updating thsoe armies that havesuffered most before too long.

Magic is overpowered, but unpredictable. It is however essentail to have magic users in your army. Heor hammer has been toned down, though there still some very hard charcter builds out there. However, its rare they break a ranked up unit on their own.

Fantasy is much more tactical than 40K, particularly when it comes movment. In 40K it generally move directly towards your enemy or stand back and shoot. In fantasy, because of unit facing and things like that, the movement phasae becomes crucial - mess it up and you can kiss victory good bye.

What type of player am I?

I like to run forward with units screaming bloody murder and I want things to die when I do it.

I played Wych cult in 4th but cannot play it in 5th w/o blasters (IMO). Most of my wyches are actually poorly converted witch elves. People say they dont do that well in fantasy though.

I like Orks in 40k but my buddy is playing orcs and goblins and also ogres so I dont want to play them.

I do actually like the idea of an army of all heavy cavalry like the brentonians but people have warned me away from them as a 1st army.

I am up for anything really. How do skaven play, or how do lizardmen play, what about DE or high elves?

is there a page that would give me a basic understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of each fantasy army? What doe each do to succeed vs fail?

Fantasy is largely a beer and pretzel game now. Tactics are (honestly) very minimial.

You’ll be required to buy large blocks of the most optimal unit.
Focus heavily on lvl 4 (the highest lvl) wizards.
And try to out magic spam your opponet.

DE:
They have very good magic for very low casting cost.
Troops are good, but some what limiting due to unti size restriction on the best stuff
They have hardy monsters.
Down side: they characters points can add up fast – and their characters are where its at for them.
Don’t waste time on BS shooting units – 8th ed makes then almost worthless for everyone.

DoC (daemon) in short: yes daemons are still OP – but that is mainly due to their ability to spam magic, and late the best spells from the main lores (see above)

Teir: Just look at the Throne of Skulls results. The top tables are pretty much the tiers. You’ll see a handful of armies come on through

Compared to 40k: can’t really actually. 40k is mainly target priority and list maximizing. Fantasy is about through down large amounts of dice (more so then 40k) and having access to the best lore of magic. List building is still important, but magic is king.

I’m someone who has switch from fantasy to WM.
It’s a combination of things: 7th ed strongly favored 3 armies (DE/ DoC/ VC) 8th ed didn’t change the balance and just made it even harder to win against those armies, problem in 7th NEVER was the core rules set – in fact – aside form the OP of magic 8th ed rules are solid – loads of fun. Its still the army books, and the power gap between books = mainly GW’s 10 year philosphy of ‘game balance’ and army book updates. In short is sucks to spend hundreds of dollars to have you army out dated in 9 months and the KNOW that you wont get an update for 6 more years.

Hi Havik,

I've recently been in a similar postition, long time 40k player and have joined fantasy when 8th hit. I play a Lizardmen army and find it is great fun, we have nice effective troops in the form of saurus and excellent magic with the Slann. I would describe Lizardmen as a combat orientated army which uses magic to buff units rather than trying to kill enemy units.

In fantasy movement can be much more important and decisive than in 40k due to needing to consider arcs in addition to distance.

As lizzies do not have much in the way of long range shooting and i dont seem to have played anyone yet who does I cant really tell you much about this. Although in my experience so far it has not been as crucial a turn as it can be in 40k, however as mentioned I haven't faced any shooting heavy armies yet.

Magic is crazy and depending on what you like that is either a good thing or a bad thing. I love it, and think that it matches the feel of the game perfectly for what I want (Although the bigger spells can be rather nasty).

Combat is different from 40k again due to the nature of the units in the game and your maneuvering on the battlefield.

If you a looking to play I would recommend finding some forums for the armies you are thinking of playing and chatting to the users about the strengths and weaknesses of the army. Lustria-onlne.com is the one I visit for Lizardmen.

how do u find the top tiers

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Originally Posted by Bibbums

how do u find the top tiers

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its arbitrary. A few of a non-GW groups have tiered the army books. Can't remember them off hand, but I suggest a quick 'comp' search on google; should give you an idea

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havik110

What type of player am I?

I like to run forward with units screaming bloody murder and I want things to die when I do it.

...

I like Orks in 40k but my buddy is playing orcs and goblins and also ogres so I dont want to play them.

I do actually like the idea of an army of all heavy cavalry like the brentonians but people have warned me away from them as a 1st army.

I am up for anything really. How do skaven play, or how do lizardmen play, what about DE or high elves?

is there a page that would give me a basic understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of each fantasy army? What doe each do to succeed vs fail?

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Sounds like you could do with a khorne based warriors of chaos army.
Also as a guy who have played both games for 10 years now I'll say that while both games are fun, there are more tactical finesse to fantasy due to the front/flank/rear as well as the many ways units move, marching, reforming, and skirmishers. Not to mention psychology rules. Oh, and Generals!

But from what you say a warriors of chaos army with lots of marauders with mark of khorne should be just you!

As for tiers of army books the biggest tournament in scandinavia tiered the army books as follows:

#1: Deamons, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, Lizardmen.

#2: High Elves, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Dwarves, Empire, Warriors of chaos.

#3: Wood Elves, Bretonia, Orcs & Goblins, Beastmen,

#4: Ogre Kingdoms (though properbly not after next mont :D).

For more information:
[url]http://www.giantfanatic.dk/giant-fanatic/#[/url] and click Tournament Pack.