I'm just absolutely amazed by the ignorance of you people.
I've been playing for almost 15 years and this "Ard Boyz mentality" thing you seem to have is less than 3 years old.
I've been to several Astro's and they've all been a blast. What makes it so awesome is that you CAN bring VDR if you want and you CAN bring your forgeworld kits and your flyer. but it doesn't mean that everyone does. It's there to give players the option to make really cool armies and original ideas.
In a soft score system people who come out just to play to win games don't win the tournament. They can only win Best General. If winning games is all you care about GO PLAY MAGIC THE GATHERING you'll be in good company.
Astro had a guard player come out one year with VDR'd elephants instead of chimera's! How awesome is that? You won't see that anywhere else and that's at the core of the hobby. Why do you think they made VDR in the first place? why do you think they put Rick Priestley's Deoderant bottle tank on the cover of white dwarf? Astro is a chance to play with that mentality in a tournament environment.
You just immediately take the standpoint that this system is open to horrible abuse and is full of cheese mongers. It's not. In ten years of Astro's and similar local cons that has never happened.
We've had 1 chipmunker in that time and he got chastised by the community. He never played in a 40k event again, we wouldn't let him because we didn't tolerate that kind of behavior.
I have been organizing tournaments for over 5 years in a similar format to Astro that I have consistently filled to capacity having events of up to 40 players. Every player always has a blast, and they almost all come back the next year. Why do they come back? because I provide them more than just 4 terrain tables and a structure for playing 3 rounds of 40k to decide who can win the most games.
People come out to my tournaments to hang out, see the cool (fully painted) armies and the terrain that we spend months building. We're not talking about 2 hills and 2 tree stands that US players call "regulation terrain" for tournaments here either.
We charge more to give players are nicer place to play in. We rent hotel ballrooms so that you don't have to have 40 people crammed into a small gaming store.
These people play in store run quicky tournaments to start and then come out to our event to see what a 'real' tournament is like. And you know what? They don't want to go back to playing in tournaments that only gameplay matters after that.
It's simple we try to draw a higher class of player.
Tournaments with a soft scoring system are nothing new. You should look up the Rogue Trader Tournament system for 5 years ago. A 30% for painting, 30% for sportsmanship and 30% for gameplay was the RECOMMENDED system pushed out by games workshop up until the release of the 'Ard boys tournament system. This is the system that my tournament is based on, and Astro originated with as well.
To borrow Senekal's famous words "We've evolved past the rogue trader system".
You clearly have devolved, taking queues from Wizards on how to run Magic tournaments is not the foundation for a solid hobbiest tournament system.
Why was it done this way? Because painting, modeling and sportsmanship are very important parts of the hobby. Something that alot of people conveniently forget.
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And why should someone be punished because they don't care for painting?
and why should someone who spent 3 years hand painting a golden demon class army have to insulted having to play against a guy who can't even bother to spray prime his figs?
It's in my tournament rules clear as day "Players who show up the day of the tournament with unpainted figures will not be allowed to play"
My players spent the time and effort to paint and make high quality armies, they expect the same respect back.
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6 ) Imperial Armor is in, Apocalypse's incredibly powerful flyer rules are in but the various Apocalypse AA units are not
Having fought several flyers in a tournament 40k game, they aren't as powerful as people make them out to be. They came, they got shot down, he cried, I won.
Flyers are an interesting addition to the game, but assuming there a game winner is mistake. You don't need AA guns to shoot one down either. I killed a thunderbolt with a Big Shoota.
Any suitably skilled player will win out against all odds.
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7 ) VDR is allowed. Holy 2004 batman.
Out of context I can see why you find that alarming.
In context VDR is a great system for allowing custom figs.
Astro doesn't just allow any VDR either, if you bothered to read the rules you'd see the judges require rules and pictures ahead of time to prevent people from showing up with crazy broken figs.
If a player spent alot of time converting his land speeders into jeeps to use for his marines why shouldn't he be allowed to use them? That's cool.
And as for the player who models a VDR 12" wide dozer blade to give his squad cover as they move up? That's just being a d*****bag.
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8 ) The tournament is somehow 75 dollars without any mention of prize support
$75 bucks is a land raider and you have no problems paying that.
besides... DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IT COSTS TO RUN A TOURNAMENT!?
Renting a nice room with 600 sqr feet for a day can cost upwards of $1000
2 days = $2000
2000 / 40 players = $50 a player just to cover the room
Plus there's administration costs, terrain costs, travel costs.
Renting tables and setup fees are usually extra.
We have or domain name and website to keep up, the cost of the graphic artist for the posters and artwork.
Your name tags, trophies, objective counters, scenario sheets, score sheets those all cost money too.
How professional is it to hand a sheet of looseleaf to a player and say "Here, just jot down your name and if you won or lost"
And where does this money come from?
*Our pocket that's where.*
Until you pay us the day of.
I'm not in this to make money either, I barely break even
And yes we have to pay for your prizes too.
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ait so if your army looks shiny and your a nice guy you can beat the most amazing players ever?????
Yes, but only if you manage to beat out every other player who plays well, gets a great sportsmanship score and paints better than you do.
You spent all this time and effort painting your army, why the hell SHOULDN'T you get scored for it?
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6) right thas just silly= he who buys the most expensive FW fighter/bomber wing wins???
Only if all his opponents don't know what they're doing. I haven't seen a flyer heavy army win a tournament yet. There not a make or break model. They help yes, but they can get shot down, they don't automatically rape an entire army for you and they can't grab objectives.
It's such a fallacy to assume that spending money on 40k will win you games.
The 2008 GT winner had 60 marines a librarian and a rhino, that's it.
How did he win against flyers? he shot them down
How did he win against land raiders full of lightning claw terminators? he shot at them
How did he win against a swarm of bugs? He out shot them, then out numbered them in hth
Simply put, he out played his opponents with what looked like crap on paper
Hey Senekal what was in your GT winning space marine list again?
I don't remember seeing a flyer, titan or a land raider in there.
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7) be prepared to see LOtS of gundam and CA (also does this meant those who artn 40 or dont have CA cant make ther own tanks )
Try high end forgeworld figs, custom sculpted tyranid monsters and scratch built realistic tanks, jeeps and elephants (yes elephants!) then you might be more in the solar system.
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What is the difference between Composition and Army list? Dump this crap already.
Composition is what you choose in your army, army list is the physical list you hand in.
Some players hand in an excel spreadsheet or hand written crap.
Some players use graphic design skills to print off high quality lists with fluff and pictures/artwork.
The first guys get no points, the second guys get points for army list.
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Ugh... Here goes the chipmunking...
There are rules against that, if you look at the scoring during the day its obvious if anyone's chipmunking.
We deal with it simply, it's cheating. You do it, you're gone!
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If it is Astro I signed up for it Didn't read the points value stuff, but I know about Imperial Armor and VDR. To be fair the Flyers might not always win because the tables are supposed to be "terrain heavy" and the battles are all battle missions like.
Astro missions vary from table to table. On one table you could be grabing objectives, the next you need to take and hold a building, the next your fighting for kill points and the next your trying to blow up a baneblade. Some terrain is light, other is heavy.
Real battlefields aren't open fields with 2 tree stands and a hill, so why should 40k games be that way?
40k games should challenge a player about his skill as a player, not just his skill at making an armylist.
Army comp is a big deal, but it's not everything.
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Get painting the F-CK out of competitive gaming tournaments FFS!! Go enter a painting contest.
Get generalship only players out of 40k tournaments, go play magic the gathering!
I see a trend here, all you people who bash Astro have never even seen it or played in it!
Go play or go watch, then judge. Don't just read the rules and assume things.
If you still don't like it, play in the 'Ard boyz that's what its for.