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I've seen lots of conflicting opinions on the legality of 30k army lists in regular 40k games.
What I'm looking for is an actual ruling in any of the books or errata that either allows or disallows.
Is there written restrictions for bringing a full Legion Astartes list to a 40k tournament or league (other than the TO rulings)?
If so what book and page?
I don't play 30k armies, I just want to know the actual page ref in case it comes up or to assist a TO in making a ruling.
30k is 30k.... its not legal in 40k.... hence why many 30k units also have separate 40k rules too or are approved for 40k for use.
Ofc what you and mates do is up to you though.
Um... I don't think there is any rules on that, actually. The 40K version of those rules are set up to work with the 40K codices, not just for 40K game uses on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badtucker
Alliances wouldn't work outside the Heresy, though. There are no literal references to anything outside the Heresy books. But most of the Heresy armies are set up to work better at a point level that Allies aren't as useful till even higher, if I remember right. Of course, that same feature means that they really aren't balanced for facing "modern" armies, even if they haven't really changed in 10K years (aka, Orks, either Eldar).
This doesn't really answer my question at all and provides no references. Technically there is no 30k, and the Armies in the Horus Heresy books use the 7th edition 40k Rulebook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badtucker
I only own the first two Horus Heresy books, and in book 1 it does have an ally chart though slightly different from the 40k rulebook.
What I need is actual book/page reference. If someone enters our league with an Legion Astartes army and expects to be able to play in 40k, I would like to have actual rules to reference as to whether this is allowed or not.
Obviously the event organizer can make a call, but they rarely have any of the expensive HH books and may not understand the power of the units.
I cant offer a reference, but i can say from 1st hand experience the FWteam that write the heresy books, including Alan Bligh say that the two arent meant to be played against each other
FW raised this in its early FAQs for Horus Heresy book 1, Betrayal - see [URL="http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Betrayal_FAQ_Errata_V2.pdf"]http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Betrayal_FAQ_Errata_V2.pdf[/URL] .
Note that this was last updated in 2013. There is a later FAQ document, from January 2016 at [URL="http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf"]http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf[/URL]
Anyway, the 2013 FAQ has this to say:
"Q: Are the armies and units in the Horus Heresy books by Forge World meant to be used in games against regular Codex armies, such as say Grey Knights or Orks?
A: While Forge World’s on-going range of Horus Heresy books and their game content are all designed to use and be compatible with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, they have been fine-tuned and focused on playing battles in the milieu of the Horus Heresy rather than in conjunction with the Codexes representing warfare in the 41st Millennium, and this will remain the case.
Designer’s Note: This means that while you are, of course, free to have fun and play games against your friends using any forces you like, and Horus Heresy forces will be broadly ‘a fair fight’ with Codex forces of the same scale, certain rules anomalies and inconsistencies may be thrown up that you have to deal with, although these should not seriously affect the game in most cases. (For example, certain units, such as those with the Stubborn special rule are at a premium costing in Horus Heresy armies over their regular Codex counterparts, owing to the results of play testing within their own sphere.)
In terms of using Lords of War and the Primarchs, however, these are definitely not intended to be used in standard Warhammer 40,000 games, but only in games where both sides use the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, and the specific provisions within, and in games of 2,000 points or greater.
Designer’s Note: So if, for example, you wanted to play a battle representing a narrative where the Sons of Horus Legion fought Orks or Eldar during the Great Crusade, you could quite easily use those xenos forces’ Warhammer 40,000 Codexes (possibly house-ruled to accommodate larger squads) to proxy for their Heresy-era counterparts. In this case, however, both sides should be using the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, with the army’s own Apocalypse level units and flyers available as Lords of War entries following the guidelines found on page 184 of Betrayal."
For an updated view, I would ask FW direct. Battlebunnies or one of the other Heresy-focused blogs might also be able to tell you.
While there is technically no rule saying that you can't use 30k lists in 40k games normally, most tournaments do tell you in their tournament packs if 30k is allowed is allowed or not, and unfortunately in every case I've seen (in Australia at least) the TO's usually ban 30k in 40k tournaments. Hopefully one day this might change as I would like to play 30k vs 40k tournaments too.