Noob starting Skaven

I've played 40k for a few years, and I want to branch out into Fantasy. I looked at the armies and read through the rulebook, and the army that appeals to me the most is Skaven. I like their fluff, models, and the random nature of their rules.

Although I've never played a game of Fantasy, I was able to secure four (yes, four!) Skaven halves of the Island of Blood set that I want to turn into the core of a decent army. For those of you who don't know, these models amount to:

4 Warlords
4 Warlock Engineers
160 Clanrats (80 with two hand weapons, 80 with spears)
4 Master Moulders
8 Rat Ogres
4 Warpfire Thrower
4 Poisoned Wind Mortars

To this I definitely want to ad a Screaming Bell, a Hell Pit Abomination, a Doomwheel, and a Warp Lightning Cannon. Aside from the aforementioned models, I'm not sure where to take this. I was considering converting 40-50 of the spear Clanrats into Stormvermin and 1-2 of the Warlords into Assassins. I like the idea of Poisoned Wind Globardiers, so perhaps converting some of them from Clanrats?

Any suggestions?

Recommendations I'd make are to change all of your spear clanrats into hand weapon/shield clanrats/slaves. You'll want large numbers of both. By large numbers I'm talking around 3 units of 30-40 slaves and 2-3 units of 30-40 clanrats. Clanrats can be upgraded with command and weapon teams, slaves... only stick a musician in there.

For stormvermin, unless you are taking Queek I don't find they are particularly useful. They actually die easier than the clanrats and perform only marginally better in combat.

Unless you just want a really cool model, I'd skip the bell. For the points cost it's just too incredibly random. It's more random than the Doomwheel.

Sadly, and I say this because I love the unit and own about 30 of the models, Poison Wind Globadiers are not very effective. They certainly have their uses but anything they can do another unit can do better.

I'd definitely pick up a Doomwheel, HPA, and/or warp lightning cannon. Personally, I'd pick either the doomwheel or the HPA and then pick up two of whichever you choose... and the warp lightning cannon.

Other recommendations would be Gutter Runners (slings and poison) and jezzails.

Also, use your Rat Ogres and pick up Skweel Gnawtooth. If you are feeling ambitious I'd suggest making a Warlord on a Bonebreaker out of one of your spare warlords and one of your rat ogres.

I'd skip the assassins personally. They are good at killing mages, weak heroes, and champions and that's about it.

Unless you really like the look of the models, I agree about staying away from Stormvermin. Slaves are the way to go, especially when they are near a general and have the steadfast rule. Stormvermin, Clanrats and Skavenslaves are all T 3, and the best you can get is Armor Save 4+ if you give the Stormvermin the shield upgrade. Let's say you get shot at by a lot of Thunderers, they will wound all of the above units on a 3+, and only the Stormvermin would have an armor save (needing '6's) but they would cost a lot more. For example, 30 Stormvermin with shields with no command or weapon teams costs 240 pts, 30 clanrats with HW and shield with no command or weapon teams costs 135 pts, 30 skavenslaves with HW and no command costs 60 pts. As you can see, having 2-3 large blocks of skavenslaves (30-40) doesn't cost that much in game points, but can save your more useful units from magic and ranged weapon fire. They also can tie up units so your guys on the flanks can attack them, hopefully from the side or rear.

Your other choices seem sound. I want to go a more Clan Pestilens route as well because of all the Plague Monks I got in my Skaven battalions.

Good luck!

while I agree that the stormvermin might be too expensive they are not as bad as the previous posters have implied. They do have a better Weapon Skill, and with halberds they have a better Strength. Also better leadership and can take a magic standard.
I would never take more than one unit though.

Everything else the others have said I agree with.

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Originally Posted by novatomato

while I agree that the stormvermin might be too expensive they are not as bad as the previous posters have implied. They do have a better Weapon Skill, and with halberds they have a better Strength. Also better leadership and can take a magic standard.
I would never take more than one unit though.

Everything else the others have said I agree with.

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You are correct in that Stormvermin are better at killing things. That being said, they are EASIER to kill than a clanrat. Clanrats with shields have a 5+/6++ in close combat. Stormvermin have a 5+ in close combat... that's it. Both are T3. Give stormvermin shields and they have slightly more survivability against shooting with a 4+ save vs clanrats 5+.

Leadership of the rats is usually a bit of a pointless discussion as if played properly, all of the important units should be within 12" of the general or at least the BSB. Really though it's a moot point anyway since clanrats and stormvermin are both Ld5 anyway.

All you get for almost DOUBLE the points with stormvermin is less survivability in close combat (slightly more against shooting if you have shields), halberds for +1S and +1WS and +1I. Clanrats and slaves aren't there to kill enemy units. They exist to lock them down with large units so you can flank charge with another unit with more hitting power (Rat Ogres, HPA, Doomwheel, etc).