Ork Speedfreaks

Part one will be a bit of a contextual issue that's been heavy on my shoulders for a while. If you want to skip to the actual crunch question, feel free.

Part 1:
So I'm not the kind of person that likes to do the math hammer list buildy thing. I'm the opposite. I hate it. All I do is picture what an attacking ork speed freak mob would look like and mix in a few models I haven't used in a while, or some I just finished painting. So it's pretty fair to say that my lists could be described as soft, and any hardness is purely accidental. I shall also establish that I'm not one who cares about winning or losing, I care more about the in between. If the game has devolved to the point where there is no strategic decision that can change the game anymore, and the out come is obvious, I'll call it to save myself from rolling 100 attacks that will ultimately change nothing. So I'm kind of in the middle of the guy who plays for the crunch and the guy who plays just to have fun. I play the rules with in the spirit of the army, but I don't finish a game when all that's left is half a unit of grots.

With that said, my problem I've been encountering recently is I haven't had a game that was worth finishing beyond turn 3. And by that I mean, I've been losing games before or on turn 3 regularly, occasionally via tabling. And again, I don't mind losing, but I'm losing the motivation to show up with 100 models of orks, take an hour to set them up and start a game, just to have them all gone or otherwise clearly defeated before half a game is over. I have to assume it's either my list, or the current state of the game balance because it doesn't seem to be a particularly nasty streak of luck, nor do I ever feel like I make tactical mistakes that would cost me this much. For example, I had a 1500 point list tabled on turn 2 by an Eldar army, despite nearly my entire army being in cover for both turns. For another example. I was completely removed turn 3 by the new Khorne Daemon book, despite turn 2 going very well in my favor.

So before the crunch question, I just want to know if anyone has advice for dealing with the lack of motivation. I don't mind losing, but if I'm gonna do it, I'd rather show up with 20 models and lose than take an hour to set up 100 just to have them do nothing.

Part 2: List Building

Speed Freaks are awesome and anyone who says other wise shall fear the Foot of Gork. Or Mork.

Typically my club plays 1500 to 2000 points games, and usually I run 2-3 mobs of boyz in trukks and/or battlewagons. Obviously the size of the mob depends on their transport. Sometimes they have shootas, sometimes they don't.

A 1500 point list of mine looks like this:
Warboss- PK, squig, lucky stick, bike
Nobs x3- 1 PK, bosspole, bike
Painboy - Grot Orderly, bike

Obviously these guys ride around. Usually they smash something, get shot, smash something else, and then die.

Boyz x 10 Trukk - Nob PK, boss pole
Boyz x 10 Trukk - Nob PK, boss pole

This list is short on boys, variants include shoota boys, sometimes more boyz, sometimes boyz in battlewagons.

Tank Bustas x 10 Trukk - Nob, bosspole, bombsquigs x3

Sometimes these guys kill things. If I don't go first they usually get their trukk blown up, which kills 4 or 5 of them, and then they don't get to do anything for the rest of the game and/or are killed.

Mek Gunz x3 - Smasha, one extra grot per gun, grot oiler x3

Sometimes these are Zzap guns. I'm desperate for something to open transports up, because when I use Power Klaws to do it, they just get shot by the cowards inside. These have not performed well.

Stormboyz x20 - Nob, PK, bosspole

Sometimes these are in two groups of 10. Either way the dumbest ork could count the number of times these guys have gotten into an assault with enough alive to win. (That means the number is very low.)



So that's a list that got removed by turn 3 by Khorne Daemons, and variants of the list have been likewise defeated by Necrons, Dark Angels, Dark Eldar, and Eldar. It is very possible that I'm making mistakes on the table top, but in some of these battles there's just no room for mistakes. I rush them turn one, giving everything a cover save I can, which is usually most things. Then my trukks blow up and my army disappears before they can reach anything. Not much room for tactics. In the event against the Daemons, I managed to get in a few favorable assaults, but Fear happened and half my army was WS1.

Am I missing something? I keep feeling like the current state of the rules is balanced from an over-saturation context. Which means there's so many options, everyone has something that's smashy. But from my experience that ultimately just means really really one sided games.

speedfreaks without rokkit buggies ??

warbosses on bikes ! run at least two or maybe four at 2k !

min / max your tankbustas - they are all going to die horribly but are a target priority over other boys. since they ALL have melta bombs in the new dex the nobs are a waste of space

heavy armour for ALL boys is a thing [big fick plates is bestest cos they is heavy - man!] shootas are for grotz !

if you have to bring runty artillery - bring lobbas ! [everyone underestimates them]

the trick is to attach your warbikeboss/es & painbikes to boys units as soon as they get out of the trukks; save points by not bothering with your nob upgrades.

dont mix up battle-waggonz with trukks - if you need speed then 8 trukks is a minimum - keep them cheap to save points.

if you must have battlewaggonz the maths changes but at least you can run mobz of 20 - they just aint as quick !

and sad as it is - a freak army has to get in it to win it - so terrain makes a big difference - if you play billiard table its a real bumm3r.

we play 1750 and my yellow army has seen off newcrons/de/tau and many variants of csm+allies - at 1500 the freak army might be a little easier to stop in its wheels !?

I always like throwing in Bikes or Nob Bikers (I modeled up a unit of Nob Bikerz and my Boss). Nob bikerz, Boss, and Painboy makes for an expensive unit, but it'll usually smash anything it runs into. Usually. Even just regular bikes with a Biker Warboss would be pretty 'ard.

Depending on the transports you're facing, Lootaz may help. Not very Speed Freaky, but a potential 45 S7 shots is usually enough to strip some Hull Points, if not outright kill the damn thing. And if all the 'ard targets are gone, they're pretty mean against infantry, too. Bonus, they throw enough bullets to cover most of your anti-air worries as well. I took down a Stormraven in a single turn with a unit, it was pretty sweet.

I'll second Lobbas, they're great. Also, Kannons are pretty sweet and cheaper than most of the other options. Zzap gun is not to my taste. The Smasha seems cool, but it's expensive.

Rokkits on all of your trukks, and if you want to add a special weapon to your mobs, go rokkits. We're a quantity over quality army, and having a ton of rokkits spread out throughout the board is useful. The big shoota doesn't do all that much anymore, since the Rokkit is now the same points cost.

I definately know what you mean by feeling a lack of motivation. Necrons are my main army, and the games just feel too easy. Orks are my other 40k army, and it feels like a meaningless slog a lot of the time! Here's what I've done that helps.
Bikes seem to be the way to go with orks right now. The Forgeworld Warboss on a Bike still makes them troops, and that is great for scoring objectives. I don't have a lot of bikes so....
I use a unit of Meganobz with Mad Doc and Grukk Facerippa from the Sanctus Reach campaign as a deathstar unit. I combine that with the scouting Battlewagon detachment from Ghaz's book (with 3 big shootas each for fliers), and then load up on Tankbustas and boyz is the rest of the Battlewagons. If there are points left over, I add some Kannons. My goal is to fill the middle of the table with models. Games are very swingy, but are always fun.
I've also seen people do well with the Green Tide formation... but that isn't very Speed Freaky.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Mcturk

speedfreaks without rokkit buggies ??

warbosses on bikes ! run at least two or maybe four at 2k !

min / max your tankbustas - they are all going to die horribly but are a target priority over other boys. since they ALL have melta bombs in the new dex the nobs are a waste of space

heavy armour for ALL boys is a thing [big fick plates is bestest cos they is heavy - man!] shootas are for grotz !

if you have to bring runty artillery - bring lobbas ! [everyone underestimates them]

the trick is to attach your warbikeboss/es & painbikes to boys units as soon as they get out of the trukks; save points by not bothering with your nob upgrades.

dont mix up battle-waggonz with trukks - if you need speed then 8 trukks is a minimum - keep them cheap to save points.

if you must have battlewaggonz the maths changes but at least you can run mobz of 20 - they just aint as quick !

and sad as it is - a freak army has to get in it to win it - so terrain makes a big difference - if you play billiard table its a real bumm3r.

we play 1750 and my yellow army has seen off newcrons/de/tau and many variants of csm+allies - at 1500 the freak army might be a little easier to stop in its wheels !?

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See I would argue a few things here. First, at least this goes for my meta, 'ard boys aren't worth the points because most weaponry fired at them are AP4 or better.
As for speedfreaks, I'm a diehard believer in Warbikers and Deffkoptas. Both are AMAZING for the points and are huge threats if utilized properly.
Trukks have lost their appeal to me unless absolutely necessary due to the change in mob rule when the new book came out. They became very high risk low reward in my opinion because if they pop, everything inside is going to die and die fast, mostly due to fighting among themselves.
Also, battlewagons can be amazing if taken in large numbers such as 5 because low and behold there be a formation in the WAAAGH! Ghazghkull book. 5 battlewagons with scout is really good if you're looking to go fast.

I do agree that Nob bikers are not worth it here. If you want some mean Nobz, stick them in those scouting battlewagons and watch the bodies fly. I usually take the Blitz Brigade (battlewagon) formation along with the Ghazghkull's Bullyboyz (meganobz) formation together and just watch as they destroy the field. For that list I usually have all 3 squads of meganobz in 3 battlewagons and fill the other 2 battlewagons with either burnas, lootas, or just good old fashioned choppa slugga boyz.

If you want to really make bikes work for you though, take Zhadsnark 'Da Rippa' from Imperial Armour 8. He does what Wazdakka used to do and makes warbikers troop choices and he has a Power Klaw that hits at initiative. I also love Painbikes.

I hope this is of some help.

'I also love Painbikes.' ^ lol.


"See I would argue a few things here. First, at least this goes for my meta, 'ard boys aren't worth the points because most weaponry fired at them are AP4 or better."

really. gosh :0... guess thats lots of TAU TAU TAU then !

but with a 6" vehicle move a 6" dismount a D6 + re-roll run and a 2D6 charge with a re-roll cant you get stuck in ?

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but with a 6" vehicle move a 6" dismount a D6 + re-roll run and a 2D6 charge with a re-roll cant you get stuck in ?

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- Can Orks assault after running? pretty much everyone else can't. Usually if you run you can't assault.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Mcturk

'I also love Painbikes.' ^ lol.


"See I would argue a few things here. First, at least this goes for my meta, 'ard boys aren't worth the points because most weaponry fired at them are AP4 or better."

really. gosh :0... guess thats lots of TAU TAU TAU then !

but with a 6" vehicle move a 6" dismount a D6 + re-roll run and a 2D6 charge with a re-roll cant you get stuck in ?

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My meta is very Tau, Eldar, and Mechanicus heavy. As for the trukks, it doesn't matter if they get the 6 inch movement, and deploy, and assault because if you're going first, that would still require you a 12 inch assault roll seeing as there is 24 inches between both armies at the start of the game. And even if you have the boarding plank, it only grants you the extra distance up to 12 inches. If you're going second, your opponent will pop the trukks first turn, especially since they're open topped.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Da Gargoyle

- Can Orks assault after running? pretty much everyone else can't. Usually if you run you can't assault.

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Only during the turn they WAAAGH!

I have the same problem with wanting to just have fun, but not wanting to get tabled by the competitive players... I think if you keep army sizes smaller 500-1000 points you can avoid the scale tipping too far. Problem is a lot of players are too stuck on the big games, and I don't even want to spend the money and time to build an army big enough to then just get tabled... In some ways it comes down to needing to find the right group to play with, but with such a small community you can't be too picky with who you're willing to play with at the same time... Idk I just wish more people played table top games with the idea that it should be fun, and not just trying to win by maximizing a really involved statistics model... Scenarios and story play a lot into making a game like this fun to me, and the greatest wizard and biggest knight just simply doesn't show up to every battle across the galaxy. And Just because you CAN put upgraded weapons on every single model of a all your units,does it mean you SHOULD?.... But at the same time I'm not discrediting the fun it can be fielding one of those units... I'm just saying there's more to the game than attempting to table your opponent every time, and if you're building your armies that way just out of fear that the other guy is going to do it, then i just have a core problem with the culture of war gaming.

I have more fun playing against myself and enjoying a scenario than trying to build the best possible army to win with. And getting tabled just because I want to have fun and build an army that looks cool isn't fun either...

You asked if you're missing something and blamed the rules? no rule set will ever have true balance, and if one did exist it would be boring and not worth playing. Blame the people who exploit the rules and make it only about winning and competition...

I've played sports my whole life and these people exist there too. We call them sandbaggera or worse... People who bring too much experience and intensity into friendly matches. If you want to play that way, and act that way, go do it at the tournament or with like minded people. When you play a friendly match at a leisure setting, it's time to relax and enjoy the game. Idk... It's a fine line, granted. But there is a line. And you'd be fooling yourself if you didn't know when you're crossing it. A lot of war gamers are way over this line in my opinion.

The bloke I would like to see again was a chap I had a few games with who always played Orks. He always seemed to be able to devise tactics and load outs for a fairly deadly Ork mob. One was the wagon train that used a mech with force field and multple trukks to get a trukk full of burna boys across the battle field to melt things. He was fond of a 10 man squad of Lootas in cover at the back of the field and Commandos slinkin in from the sides. A bit of it was poor target selection by me but he was flexible enough to make it work. Been a while since I have seen him though and I heard he was now trying out Dark Angels. Still green though.