Which Astra Militarum List should I use?

I recently posted an astra militarum army list and after much the feedback I received as well as reading other posts of IG lists as well, I have created two Astra Militarum lists which I am both finally satisfied with, one is completely mechanized and the other features high vehicles but instead of veterans in chimeras it uses infantry platoon bubble wrap. I was just wondering which seemed better overall, small tweaks to each can be made of course. I tried to make this is an all-comers lists, but marines will be the primary opponent. That is why I am so fond of the Leman Russ Execution and Plasma Gn

++HQ++

Leman Russ Punisher w/Tank Commander, Heavy Bolter Sponsons- 190 Points
Leman Russ Executioner w/Plasma Cannon Sponsons- 185 Points


++Troops++

Veterans w/2 Plasma Guns, Chimera- 155 Points

Veterans w/2 Plasma Guns, Chimera- 155 Points

Veterans w/Plasma Guns, Heavy Flamer, Chimera- 150 Points

++Fast Attack++

Vendetta w/3 Twin-Linked Lascannons- 170 Points

Vendetta w/3 Twin-Linked Lascannons- 170 Points

++Heavy Support++

Leman Russ Executioner w/Plasma Cannon Sponsons- 185 Points

Leman Russ Eradicator w/Heavy Bolter Sponsons- 140 Points

Total: 1,500 Points

I could have put in a Wyvern battery instead of an eradicator, but I felt I needed more AV14 for a mechanized list like this. If I did that I could replace the Heavy Flamer in the one Veteran squad with a plasma gun.


++HQ++

Leman Russ Punisher w/Pask- 210 Points
Leman Russ Executioner w/Plasma Cannon Sponsons- 185 Points

Primaris Psyker- 50 Points

Ministorum Priest- 25 Points

++Troops++
Infantry Platoon- 197 Points
Platoon Command Squad w/Heavy Flamer, 2 Flamers, Vox-Caster
Infantry Squad w/Boltgun, Flamer, Autocannon, Vox-Caster
Infantry Squad w/Boltgun, Flamer, Autocannon, Vox-Caster

Infantry Platoon- 178 Points
Platoon Command Squad w/3 Sniper Rifles, Vox-Caster
Infantry Squad w/Boltgun, Flamer, Autocannon, Vox-Caster
Infantry Squad w/Boltgun, Flamer, Autocannon.

++Fast Attack++

Vendetta w/3 Twin-Linked Lascannons- 170 Points

Vendetta w/3 Twin-Linked Lascannons- 170 Points

++Heavy Support++

Leman Russ Executioner w/Plasma Cannon Sponsons- 185 Points

Wyvern Squadron w/2 Wyverns- 130 Points

Total: 1,500 Points

While I like the idea of that many plasma cannons, you should keep in mind that every time you fire them all you'll have a 5/6 chance of a gets hot roll, and thus a 5/12 chance of getting AT LEAST 1 hull point gone. But the Pask Punisher with heavy bolters is awesome because of the rending and precision shot potential. For the bodyguard tank that can target other stuff, instead of the full plasma tank, why not the Executioner with multi-melta sponsons and lascannon on front? Then it can tackle all your AP2/AP1 needs, like Terminators, Centurions, and armor both light and heavy-ish.

Then if you're facing mostly Marines, in your heavy slot I like the plain old Leman Russ, or the Vanquisher or Exterminator with multi-meltas and a lascannon. They both have range and can stay back with your guard-blob.

And I might recommend another platoon in the guard blob if you go that route, and then 1 Vet squad in Chimera. The Platoon Command with an Enginseer could also be in a Chimera, helping the tanks to vary the targets if needed.

Wyverns are the AstraM Thunderfire Cannon, just too good to not take for those points. But another Russ is fun too, nothing like a wall of AV14 blasting away :) Just hang back if you can as multi-charging bikers could ruin your day horribly with krak grenades vs rear armor.

Vendettas are always a good idea!

But if I was picking between the 2 lists above, I think the 2nd list would be my preference.

I prefer the frst list but it would be nice to get Pask into it.

Swap out a vendetta maybe for 2 wyverns then you free up enough points. Pask gives preferred enemy to the executoner meaning fewer overheats and more accuracy. Might as well get a hull lascannon for pask too with preferred enemy and tank hunter and the rending punnisher thrown in he becomes decent against vehicles too.

Dropping a vendetta means you may want one vet squad armed with meltas to compensate a little for the drop in antitank power.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord Krungharr

While I like the idea of that many plasma cannons, you should keep in mind that every time you fire them all you'll have a 5/6 chance of a gets hot roll, and thus a 5/12 chance of getting AT LEAST 1 hull point gone.

---

Nope, that's not how tanks work. They only suffer gets hot after rolling a one, then rolling a 1-3 on the following roll. Pask also re-rolls 1s, or with Prescience all the tanks do so your chances of losing a hull point per turn are somewhere near 1/12.

The second list utilizes flankers and auto cannons for some reason. Guard units work best when devoted to one task only.

Sniper rifles are not as good in this edition as in past editions.

The plain Leman Russ is the worst tank in the current codex. Too many points for not enough return.:confused:

Some points:

1) If you take Vets, get them 3 special weapons. 2xplasma and 1xmelta, or 3xplasma, depending on your other units roles.
2) Wyverns are silly good, and doesn't require los, in case your enemy tries to hide units from you - i would suggest using all slots and not grouping them up if you have heavy support slots available.
3) Against PA-marines (or any unit with 3+ save) basic Leman Russ is really devastating if you generally play on tables that leman russ can put its range to use. If you can't shoot more than 24-30" away, then the Demolisher is obviously better choice - if you have the points. I would not put any upgrades on those tho, other than maybe multi-melta sponsons on demolisher.
-> Not that the executioner isn't good choice already :)
4) If you take Punisher as your HQ, ALWAYS find points to include Pask. That rending is too good not to put to use. (last game i almost managed to drop imperial knight dead with it :D)