Proposed new rules for 7th for CSM and Daemons

Howdy.
I have been reviewing the codexes for these two factions for some time and and recently submitted some *suggestions* to GW for, what I consider, the inevitable 7th ed update for all 6th ed codexes. The early 6th ed codexes IMO do need to be revisited in order to make some factions more competitive and others more balanced. I know MANY people have made suggestions to GW before and the odds of someone actually taking notice is slim but I felt it was at least worth a try to hopefully give the development team at GW, or what passes for one, some ideas. I know some ideas are probably optimistic/ambit claims but I wanted to see both factions be competitive without being OP with good abilities reflected in cost or some other limitation. I also wished to see some more variety with the inclusion or the various Legions for CSM (akin to 5th ed) and some changes to make daemons more competitive without having to rely on daemon spamming. Any way, its all food for thought.

Chaos Space Marine 7th Ed codex suggestions
Rationale
If Games Workshop development team has been following the general player base consensus then they would understand that the verdict of the 6th ed Chaos Space Marine Codex is that it is mediocre and uncompetitive; perhaps a victim of codex creep. This is, of course, largely subjective and I admit that as a Chaos player I have had success with it, but I attribute this to my most of my regular group not really knowing how to extract the most from their factions and having limited funds to buy the type of units needed to really give me trouble. That said, I have witnessed in tournament play that Chaos has not been successful and is simply a punching bag for some factions.

With the weakening of close combat in the meta-game, Chaos has lost what was its true punch and defining style. Indeed with the recent releases of Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels (with their special rules against Chaos and units like Deathwing Knights) Chaos Space Marines are outclassed in melee. A close combat oriented army is often highly risky and I personally have fallen back to shooting, of which Chaos can field decent firepower oriented lists, however it is far too similar to their loyalist brothers in style and approach for the liking of many traditional Chaos players. I have toyed with the idea of using the Space Wolf codex but with Chaos Space Marine models.

That said I recommend the following changes to enhance the fluff and actual competitiveness of this overwhelmingly derided codex.
Please note that I have been playing Chaos since 1st Ed and while I am biased I believe objectivity is also necessary to achieve balance – to make Chaos effective but not overpowered. I believe all following recommendations should be made, with all positive changes receiving the necessary points increases.

Warlord Traits
Flames of Spite: Soul Blaze? Seriously? How about something useful –
Protection of the Dark Gods – grants Adamantium Will special rule.

Daemon Weapons
Daemon Weapons could have an option to forgo their extra attacks for one attack which causes Instant Death or an automatic penetration, or any to wound roll of 6 has Instant Death. Given so many damn melee weapons in the Space Wolves codex have the Master Crafted rule, Daemon Weapons, which are supposed to be unique should also be of such unreal quality that they too count as Master Crafted unless Daemon Weapons gain the ability to make an Instant Death attack (above) or the Hatred rule is broadened (below).
There should also be a generic Daemon Weapon able to be taken by characters.
STR: - AP:2 Shred

Veterans of the Long War
The Hatred ability that this grants should not be specific to the Space Marine faction. Chaos Space Marines are hate fuelled and the Horus Heresy veterans would be beyond insane after 10,000 of warfare. They should harbour hatred towards everything, even rival Chaos forces.

Marks of Chaos
Mark of Khorne – This should also grant Furious Charge*. Furious Charge is the signature trait of Khornate units (ie daemons, Berzerkers). It is silly to have a Khorne Lord, presumably a Berzerker, who doesn’t also have Furious Charge. The point increase should be +5.
*Furious Charge for Khornate units should be changed to Berzerk Charge which adds +1 Initiative when charging and +1 Strength. At present those with a Mark of Slaanesh have a huge advantage attacking first, combined with an equal WS – there really is little advantage in taking a Mark of Khorne over a Mark of Slaanesh when Khorne is supposed to be dominant in melee. Berzerk Charge should also require any character or unit with a Mark of Khorne to charge an enemy unit if able to do so – the Chaos player gets to choose if there are target options but they must charge a unit even if they are unable to harm it.
Mark of Slaanesh – This should also add 1 to the bearers close combat result.

Units
Sorcerer Lord – Chaos needs a Lord level (3 wound) Sorcerer as an alternative.
Sorcerers – Sorcerers with a Mark of Tzeentch should be able to use Divination powers as they are renowned for their scrying ability, including forewarning the Emperor himself prior to the Horus Hersey. If that doesn’t justify getting Divination I don’t know what does.
Daemon Prices – Daemon Prices of Khorne need Rage for an appropriate post increase for consistency with the Mark of Khorne for Chaos Space Marines.
Warpsmiths – Warp Smiths are worth 110 points whereas a Space Marine Techmarines/Wolf Priest is only 55 yet they a Servo Arm and a Thunder Hammer. Even with a better attribute profile the Techmarine is better and is more likely to kill a Warpsmith in melee – the Techmarines weapons inflict instant death on the Warpsmith.

Chaos Space Marines
These need some variation to reflect the different styles of warfare of the different Legions, like 5th Ed W40K achieved.

Alpha Legion
Alpha Legion Chaos Space Marine and Chosen squads may gain the Infiltrate ability for +1 point per model or +5 points for independent characters. Alpha Legion characters or units may not take a Mark of Chaos.
Any cultist unit of an Alpha Legion force gain the ability to infiltrate and move through cover but cost +1 point per model. They may also purchase frag grenades for +1 point per model and/or krak grenades for +2 points per model for the entire unit.

Word Bearers
Any Word Bearer squad may be led by a Dark Apostle which does not count as a HQ choice. Each Dark Apostle may take the Faith in the Dark Gods (or Faith in Chaos or Blessing of the Dark Gods) ability for +5 points which grants Adamantium Will. This applies to any squad the Dark Apostle leads.
Any Word Bearers unit that is not already Fearless may also take the “And they shall know no fear” ability for +1 point per model.
Word Bearers characters or units may not take a Mark of Chaos.

Night Lords
Night Lords may purchase Chaos Bikers, Raptors or Warp Talons as Troops choices instead of Fast Attack. They may also purchase one more Fast Attack choice at the expense of one Heavy Support choice.
Any Night Lords character or unit may gain the Night Vision and Stealth abilities for +5/+1 points each respectively. Any Night Lords Biker unit may gain the Skilled Riders ability for ability for +1 point per model or +5 points for independent characters.
Night Lords characters or units may not take a Mark of Chaos.

Iron Warriors
Iron Warriors may purchase Obliterators or Mutilators as Elite choices as well as Heavy choices. Furthermore Iron Warriors may purchase one more Heavy Support choice at the expense of one Fast Attack choice.
Any Iron Warriors character may purchase a Servo-Arm and because Iron Warriors are technically gifted all Iron Warriors Chaos Space Marines apply the same bonuses that Servitors would grant when making rolls to repair using Servo Arms .
Any Iron Warrior Chaos Space Marine character or unit may take the Siege Specialist ability giving them +1 to penetrate buildings and fortifications. This costs +5/+1 point respectively.
Iron Warriors characters or units may not take a Mark of Chaos.

Black Legion
Chosen may be purchased as Troops choices rather than Elite choices.
Black Legion Chosen may take the Tank Hunters ability for +3 points per model.
Black Legion characters or units may take any Mark of Chaos.

Havocs
At present Havocs cost the same points as Space Marine Devastators or Long Fangs but do not receive the benefit of Split Fire. Long Fangs also receive Counter Attack. Havocs should be able to take the Tank Hunters ability for +3 points per model.
Another possible rule is Fire Frenzy - Havocs are so crazy and prefer using rapid firing weapons, dangerously so, that Havocs armed with Heavy Bolters or Autocannon must fire at twice the weapons capability unless the Havoc Champion passes a leadership test each shooting phase. When firing at twice their rate of fire these weapons have the Gets Hot! rule.

Possessed Chaos Space Marines
The claws of Possessed Marines should have the Rending quality.

Chaos Terminators
While good, Chaos Terminators simply cannot stand against Deathwing Knights or even Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield equipped loyalist Terminator Space Marines. Perhaps a Chaos Terminator melee variant could be considered? Mutilators are a joke. Improved Khorne Berzerkers could be an option, see below. To match Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield Terminators, which are exclusive loyalist gear, perhaps Lightning Claws could be buffed for Chaos Terminators, as Horus was originally depicted wielding a pair. Perhaps they could cause inflict rending hits on to-hit and to-wound rolls of 6.

Cult Terminators
Berzerkers: Fearless, Furious Charge, May use Power Axes at normal initiative (possibly use 30K rule - all enemy are 3+ to hit and all enemy hit the berserker terminators in melee on 3+)
Thousand Sons: Have Inferno Bolts and are Fearless
Plague Terminators: Have Blight Grenades, Plague weapon (axe, sword or mace or scythe – +2 S, unwieldy, 2H, AP3 ), Fearless and Feel No Pain
Noise Terminators: Fearless and may take a Sonic Blaster. One in five may take a Blastmaster and the Champion may take a Doom Siren.

Khorne Berzerkers
Berzerkers have long been, arguably, among the very best melee troops in the game (in their description in the codex is states they are the ultimate shock troops) but they are simply outclassed in melee – Chosen get more attacks than Berzerkers when given a Mark of Khorne and they still have a 24” ranged attack! Berzerkers are only good when they charge. After the first round, or if the Berzerkers are charged, Chosen are statistically better because, comparatively, a Chosen unit of 10 could inflict 30% casualties on a Berzerker unit of 10 before the Berzerkers made it into melee; 50% if they were to rapid fire once. Warp Talons with a Mark of Slaanesh will destroy a unit of Berzerkers before they can do anything. Compare Death Company to Berzerkers: Death Company are 1 point extra yet have, additionally, 1 higher base attack, Feel No Pain, and relentless, so they can make use of Bolters and retain a 24” ranged attack. Seriously, what ****in’ gives?
Khorne Berzerkers need their base attacks raised to 2. Furthermore the Chain Axe they can take at a ridiculous +3 points per model only grants AP4. Chain Axes should grant either Shred, Rending or, like 5th Ed, reduce an opponents save to 4+ at best.
Furious Charge also needs to be tweaked (see previous). Or perhaps a special rule that allows Berzerkers to consolidate into a fresh assault.
A World Eaters force may take Berzerkers as Troop Choices but the Lord must have a Mark of Khorne, and may therefore not be a Sorcerer. Units in the World Eaters detachment may only take a Mark of Khorne.

Thousand Sons
Thousand Sons should lose the Slow and Purposeful rule.
Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcerers should be able to be replaced with Sorcerers for +37 Points.
A Thousand Sons force may take Thousand Sons as Troop Choices but the Lord must have a Mark of Tzeentch, and I would argue should be a Sorcerer. Units in the detachment may only take a Mark of Tzeentch.

Plague Marines
Given their Toughness, Feel No Pain and Plague Knives, Plague Marines are good in melee as well as at range. They are great as is.
A Death Guard force may take Plauge Marines as Troop Choices but the Lord must have a Mark of Nurgle. Units in the Death Guard detachment may only take a Mark of Nurgle.

Noise Marines
Given their sonic weapons are similar to Dirge Casters, any Noise Marine unit equipped with a sonic weapon should effectively have a Dirge Caster. Furthermore anyone trying to charge them should have their charged distance reduced by -2” if hit by overwatch fire to take into account the sonic barrage being thrown at them.
An Emperor’s Children force may take Noise Marines as Troop Choices but the Lord must have a Mark of Slaanesh. Units in the Slaaneshi detachment may only take a Mark of Slaanesh.

Warp Talons
Warp Talons don’t even have frag grenades. I’ve never seen them used.

Heldrake
Hades Autocannons should have the Rending ability, like Assault Cannons do as they are a much larger calibre (being STR8) and have the same rate of fire.
Heldrakes should be able to Vector Strike twice as they have two claws.

Forgefiend
Ectoplasma cannons should not Get Hot. They are not common or garden plasma guns, they are daemonic and they only have a short range.
Hades Autocannons should have the Rending ability, like Assault Cannons do as they are a much larger calibre (being STR8) and have the same rate of fire.

Chaos Land Raiders
Why was the Infernal Device from 5th edition removed, which was at least some equivalent to Power of the Machine Spirit? This should be added again.

Abaddon the Despoiler
Abaddon’s Talon of Horus is largely useless, save for attacking vehicles. Without gaining extra attacks from the Daemon Weapon it is almost pointless to use the Talon of Horus. I realise the Horus Heresy books are supposed to be standalone but the statistics for Horus’ claw are markedly different. It would be great to incorporate the Disabling Strike ability, but not make it cumulative, and make the Talon AP2. This would make the Talon make less attacks but be debilitating.

Kharn
Kharn, like Abaddon, should not be able to be turned into a spawn nor should he be allowed to turn into a Daemon Prince.
Kharn just doesn’t go down and has traditionally had four (4) wounds to represent the fact that he has died or nearly died multiple times only to be spared by Khorne. Furthermore, in 5th Ed, Kharn had the equivalent of Eternal Warrior. To reflect this Kharn should either get Eternal Warrior, a fourth wound, Feel No Pain or It Will Not Die.

Ahriman
Ahriman, like Abaddon, should not be able to be turned into a spawn nor should he be allowed to turn into a Daemon Prince.
Ahriman should be able to choose his Warlord Trait between Master of Deception and Protection of the Dark Gods.
Ahriman should be able to choose psychic powers from the Divination discipline, as recommended for all Tzeentchian psykers.

Typhus
Typhus, like Abaddon, should not be able to be turned into a spawn nor should he be allowed to turn into a Daemon Prince.

Lucius the Eternal
Lucius, like Abaddon, should not be able to be turned into a spawn nor should he be allowed to turn into a Daemon Prince.

Fabius Bile
Fabius, like Abaddon, should not be able to be turned into a spawn nor should he be allowed to turn into a Daemon Prince.
Fabius’ Xyclos Needler should inflict some debilitating effect on victims such as -1 Initiative, -1 Strength or -1 Toughness or a combination. Alternatively anyone wounded by it should lose a wound each turn unless they pass a Toughness test.
With Fabius’ Enhanced Warriors, I much prefer the 5th Ed possibilities. Perhaps the points cost could be removed but should a 6 result, ‘created a monster’ result is rolled, then in game turn 6, at the start of the Chaos players turn the Warriors are rolled for individually and on a 4+ they expire. In Turn 7 they expire on a 3+.

Chaos Rewards
Ichor Blood – Okay its only 5 points but it’s pretty useless.
How about:
Spiky Bits (same as Master Crafted) – 5 pts
Daemon Armour – 2+ save Power Armour (like Artificer Armour) – 20 pts
Daemonic Rune – Grants Eternal Warrior – 10 pts
Daemonic Speed - +1 Initiative – 10 pts
Daemonic Strength - +1 Strength – 10 pts
Daemonic Toughness - +1 Toughness (does not stack with Mark of Nurgle) – 10 pts
Daemon Venom – gains Poisoned (4+) rule – 5 pts
Daemonic Mutation – +1 Attack – 15 pts
Daemonic Essence - +1 Wound – 15 pts
Daemonic Resilience – Grants Feel No Pain – 10 pts

Wargear
Sigil of Corruption: This should only be a 10 point upgrade for characters in Terminator armour considering you pay for a 5+ invuln save (same as Aura of Dark Glory ~15 pts) but then have to pay the same amount to go from 5+ to 4+ as a character which has no invulnerable saving throw.
Reaper Autocannon – Reaper Autocannon cost the same as Assault Cannons but will generally hit less – even with twin linked an Assault Cannon will usually hit 3 times. Assault Cannons also have the Rending quality despite the fact that twin barrelled weapons operate on the Gast principle and can achieve equal rates of fire to Gatling/rotary type weapons. Reaper Autocannons should therefore also have the Rending quality and for a 5 pt increase, have their rate of fire increased to Heavy 3.
Chaos Icons
Icon of Wrath – Given the recommended change to Furious Charge, or a specific Khornate version of it, this would make the Icon of Wrath almost totally redundant. The Icon of Wrath should therefore grant +1 Initiative when charging and allow the unit to re-roll charge distance. If Berzerkers are not given an extra base attack then the banner could grant an additional attack to each unit member which still achieves the same result.

Vehicle Equipment
Destroyer Blades – These cost 15 points whereas a Heavy Bolter costs 10. Destroyer blades can only be used in melee and while they may inflict up to 6 hits, they may also only inflict 1, and they have no AP. Destroyer Blades should be reduced to 5 pts.

Chaos Artefacts
Axe of Blind Fury – This may only be taken by a model with a Mark of Khorne (which grants Rage) but the weapon also grants Rage. This ‘benefit’ therefore grants nothing but instead penalises the model. Depending upon whether or not the recommendation to change Furious Charge (or a specific Khorne version) is adopted, the weapon could instead grant Furious Charge or Rampage or not incur the -1 WS penalty is totally out of place for a weapon of the Blood God.
The Murder Sword – This is pretty limited. It would be more useful if its enhanced state was effective against all enemy characters, but perhaps only gave +2 Strength rather than x2.
Scrolls of Magus – A Sorcerer with the Scrolls could automatically elect to roll from the Daemonology – Malefic powers instead of rolling randomly which discipline their bonus power comes from.

Psychic Powers
Some of the Chaos Space Marine psychic powers are pretty lacklustre while others are awesome. The Tzeentch powers are particularly mediocre compared to the Nurgle and Slaaneshi powers, specifically Tzeentch’s Firestorm; it should at the very least have Soul Blaze. Doombolt should be have the Lance quality.

Chaos Daemons 7th Ed codex suggestions
On the whole this codex is actually good and it quite competitive largely because of the ability to summon daemons now in 7th ed. This should not be the only reason why the faction is competitive.

Daemonic Alignment
Daemon of Khorne
Should have rage and possibly even counterattack.

Daemonic Instability
Unit passes if Chaos Gods number is rolled.

Warp Storm Table
The Warp Storm table effects are almost insignificant. The following effects could replace or be in addition to the existing effects:
Storm of Fire – Each unit of Tzeentchian Daemons gain +1 Initiative, Adamanitum Will, +1 to the Strength of psychic attacks or each successful hit with the Soul Blaze special rule counts as one hit rather than a maximum D3 per unit. Players choice, chosen individually.
Rot Glorious Rot – Each unit of Nurgloid Daemons gain +1 Toughness, Feel No Pain (5+) or improve their poisoned roll by 1. An improved 2+ roll may re-roll results of 1, wounding on a 4+. Players choice, chosen individually.
The Dark Price Thirsts – Each unit of Slaaneshi Daemons gain +1 attack, their hits gain the Blind quality, or Preferred Enemy. Players choice, chosen individually.
Khorne’s Wrath – Each unit of Khornate Daemons gain +1 Strength, or either Hatred, Rage or Rampage rule. Players choice, chosen individually.
Note that if the above benefits are adopted then some other recommended benefits will be mute as they will be overpowering.

Warlord Traits
Herald of Doom: This has no effect on many units as many units are immune to Fear. It would be useful if it applied to all Leadership tests.

General note about Greater Daemons/Monstrous Creatures
It is suggested that all Greater Daemons have their Strength and Toughness values increased by one as they are vulnerable to pretty much everything. Alternatively consideration could be given to increasing their invulnerable saves by 1 to 4+. Daemons’ 5+ invulnerable save is of modest effect considering most have no armour. Greater Daemons are the biggest investment a Daemon faction player can make and they are the most powerful entities the Chaos Gods create to do their bidding; it stands to reason that they should be better protected than lesser entities. I am also strongly of the opinion that Instant Death granted by Force is absolutely overpowered and needs to be removed. Force weapons should only allow the wielder to increase strength ie Hammerhand ability. Furthermore monstrous creatures should not receive initiative penalties when charging through cover since they have the ‘move through cover’ special rule. It makes absolutely no sense.
 
Khorne Daemons
Because Khorne forces cannot take any psykers they should receive a natural resistance to psychic powers. This could be Adamantium Will or immunity to empowered force weapons.
One of the biggest weaknesses of Khorne daemons yet one of the greatest, if not the greatest strength of the Daemon faction, is the ability to summon other daemons. Khornate daemons need a method to be able to summon other daemons without needing psykers. Apart from simply giving Bloodthirsters one of more powers such as Summoning, Sacrifice or Incursion, perhaps they can roll them on a reward table; for example, in place of Unbreakable Hide. As an alternative perhaps, a number of lesser Khorne daemons can be summoned equal to the number of wounds inflicted in melee by Khorne daemons. The new unit of daemons must deep strike in the next daemon players turn. A daemon faction with psykers can largely guarantee summoning at least one unit of lesser daemons each turn so this compensates for that.

Bloodthirsters
Flying and charging, and Smash rules are now broken. Monstrous creatures cannot even destroy a dreadnought let alone a behemoth like Land Raider, even when a Bloodthirster is a melee machine and is exactly the same points cost as a Land Raider. A Bloodthirster cannot penetrate an armour value of 13 and therefore in totally ineffective against venerable dreadnoughts and Knights, which it can only attack on its front. Bloodthirsters must make only one attack to double their strength and this has a 33% chance to miss. If a flying monstrous creature swoops then it can’t attack in melee for at least a third of the game (the turn it flies and the turn it lands).
Lash of Khorne should count as a melee weapon, and a specialist weapon to allow the Bloodthirster to gain an extra attack. The Specialist Weapon quality is overused in Codex: Daemons. Whips are a melee weapon.

Bloodthirsters need to be Strength and Toughness 7; Strength 7 at least. Strength is their defining attribute.

Bloodletters and Heralds
Bloodletters REALLY need to be Toughness 4, even if they cost a point or two more. Heralds should then be increased to Toughness 5.

Bloodcrushers
Bloodcrushers need to be Toughness 5. Given their bulk and tremendous charge they feel a bit lack with regard to special abilities. Perhaps they gain Concussive on the round they charge or It Will Not Die.

Fleshhounds
Fleshhounds are fast and agile but only have an Initiative of 4. This needs to be 5.

All Khorne Lesser Daemons, except Heralds and Fleshhounds
Why do they have BS when they do not use ranged weapons and cannot take them? Could they not have these points put into more useful attributes.

Skulltaker
Needs to be Toughness 5

Scarbrand
Needs to be Strength and Toughness 7. Also needs Rampage.

Lords of Change
Needs to be Strength and Toughness 7; Toughness 7 at least. Should have Initiative 10.

Pink Horrors
Blue Horrors need to inflict Strength 3 hits not Strength 2 hits. Strength 2 is appalling.

Heralds of Tzeentch
Need an Initiative in the order of ~6.

Kairos Fateweaver
Needs to be Strength and Toughness 6; Toughness 6. Should have Initiative 10.

Great Unclean Ones
Needs to be Strength 7 and Toughness 8; Toughness 8 at least.

Ku’gath Plaguefather
Needs to be Strength 7 and Toughness 8; Toughness 8 at least.

Keeper of Secrets
Needs to be Strength and Toughness 7; Toughness 7 at least.

Chariots
Honestly, most of the chariots are not worth taking. I have not bought any myself, and I see few daemon players ever use them.

Melee Weapons
Warp Sword
This should be AP2. Dreadknights and all other walkers have AP2 melee upgrades.

Hellforged Artefacts
The Eternal Blade
Is rubbish. On a Bloodthirster or Keeper of Secrets the WS and Initiative bonuses are all but useless.
The Portalglyph
Not even worth it. On average it will only spawn 1.75 lesser daemons per turn.
The Doomstone
Is lacklustre. Very low probability of killing any character with it owing to their high Leadership (at least 9) and 2-3 failed rolls required.
The Grimoire of True Names
Daemons of the same alignment should not suffer a penalty or at least, only on a 1.

Daemonic Rewards
The Exalted rewards could be slightly better. As they are they do not justify their cost. I know of no daemons player that uses them.
3. Soul Eater – should not need the extra D6 die roll.
4. Unholy Frenzy – is like paying points for abilities some daemons should already have.
5. Warp Tether - its an extra wound, which you can basically get from the Greater Rewards table and you get to deep strike again, which may be a negative because you can get shot at again or possibly scatter to death. Corpulescence is simply better at 10 points less.
6. Winds of Chaos. This is a really crap weapon. Low probability to get a decent strength and low AP for 30 points.

Daemon Psychic Powers
Slaaneshi psychic powers are weak. Compare the Primaris ‘Lash of Slaanesh’ with the other Primaris powers. It is crap. Cacaphonic Choir is also largely useless for a Warp Charge 2 power, given the general high leadership in most factions. Considering an average 2D6 roll is 7 and 7 is a low base Leadership stat, it is rarely effective. It should be 2D6+2 or +3 or have an option to use a third Warp Charge point for an extra D6.

What I don’t also understand is why is there a difference in powers between CSM and Daemons codexes when they are granted by the same gods. Perhaps both faction could roll on either table?

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