A disheartening orientation.

[Freefall945]

I have decided to branch out into the wonderful world of Warmachine, and scooped up the Mercenaries book to get going. I played my "this is how this game works" game with a friend of mine. He's a Retribution player, but decided to play a list of Retribution he had never played before to try to soften up his inevitable victory over this first-timer.

My force was Soldiers of Fortune (all the way to tier 4) in a 25 point game, which gave me a handful of solos some steelhead halberdiers, a pair of Nomads, and gritty Drake Macbain to get things moving. My friend played Kaelessa (sp) and a swarm of Mage Hunters, a Phoenix and I think, a Manticore? The details are fuzzy.

What occured was one of those really bad first games - the kind where the veteran, who sincerely wants you to have fun and take up the game fulltime, can do nothing but channel death himself when he rolls dice, and every fledgeling stratagem MacBain attempted fell apart. Between Backlash and the Jack Hunter rule on the mage hunters, he practically died of the headache. Most of his army being Stealthed meant I needed to charge the guns if I expected to succeed in any fashion - and succeed I did not.

My question is simple. Do Mercenaries suck? Are Retribution horrifying? Is it simply because I am playing my first game and am unfamiliar with the rules that playing this game felt a lot like forcing my face into a meat grinder, or is there some mechanical imbalance in the system I can hang my shame on?

Help a noob out.

[TheBitzBarn]

No it is because the game is WEAK, lacks tactics see page 5

[FastEd]

Mercs are fine. Ret isn't rediculous. What should have probably happened, and is generally how the game is demoed, was each of you just play a game with just a battle box to work out the base rules, with him explaining what he feels is the most optimal play is, but also providing the pros for other plays you could take. The battle boxes you each use doesn't mater to much. I will say, however, that Ret is a little difficult to deal with when you don't know what's going on with their army, and even more so when you don't know the game mechanics all that well.

The art of demoing is not as easy as people think, and I've been doing it for 40k and Warmachine/Hordes for years now. The only reasons I haven't signed up to be a Press Ganger (the Privateer Press volunteer staff) is because I'm already a GW Kommando (thought the program seems to be all but dead right now), and my area already has a great PG.

You may find that Mercs have a little bit of a different learning curve to them because your more limited in your options compared to other factions as you have to pick a contract or tiered theme list to build within, where as other armies can pick from their entire faction's listing, and can choose to be more constrained if they so wish. So, while you don't have quite as many options you will theoretically learn how to use what you do have available to a higher standard of play.

@TheBitzBarn Quit trolling, please. I would appreciate it very much.

[pgmason]

I would say that you played too big a first game. I'd never try to teach someone at more than 15 points. Usually I use battle boxes.

WM's gameplay relies much more on 'system mastery' than most games, i.e. knowing how the rules and your models work, what stuff does, what order it's best to activate models and so on. This means it has a pretty steep learning curve, and I'd expect to lose a lot until you're familiar with the mechanics and the abilities of yours and your opponents' troops. It doesn't mean the game is bad, it means the game is challenging.

I don't know enough about the specific forces involved to know if that's a particularly bad matchup or not, as they're not ones commonly used in my area.

[tonyzahn]

As everyone else has said, it's not usually recommended to play infantry in a demo game. Not because of any balance issue, but the warjacks and warcaster are the core of the game, and it's easier to learn that core when you don't have to worry about anything else.

[GentleBen]

Mercenaries are one of the harder Warmachine factions to play and lack the brute force most of the others have. You have to get to know when and how to use all their weird tricks because they can't get a win just by hitting something repeatedly.

Your first mistake may have been playing a tier list. They are often more about flavor than a competitive edge. In most cases I think it should be the veteran player who takes the tier list as that will often make the new guys life a little easier. McBain has one of the weaker tiers and it denies him some of his best tools. For one thing, I like Gudrun the Wanderer as an early game counter-measure target. Boomhowler's trollkin are also a great choice for his feat since they are immune to knockdown. Finally I like Aiayana and Holt with him because her "harm" spell combined with Jackhammer can help the humble Nomad wreck just about anything.

If you want to build a list specifically to counter your friend's, try a highborn list with gun mages, the gun mage UA, and a marshalled Mule.

Also, read [URL="http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/06/blood-and-coin-mercenary-warcaster.html"]this[/URL] if you're a McBain fan and haven't already.

[Warsmith_Kaile]

As stated above, you should have only been playing at most 15pts. Not only that but using a RoS force that was mostly Mage hunter units on a first time player is just plain RUDE. Even I, a veteran player of 7 years, can have problems dealing with just one of those squads of Eiryss-lights.

If he was planning on doing something more than just a battle box game, all he should have done was add one basic unit to each side for a max game of 20pts.

[thetallest]

I'm going to ditto what the others have said - but from a different perspective. You say that you're 'branching in' to the game - that implies that you play some other miniature wargames?

One thing that Warmachine/Hordes has going for it is that skill is a much more important factor in the game. The learning curve, as has already been mentioned, is steeper than the one found in Warhammer Fantasy, and much steeper than the one found in Warhammer 40k. Add to that the need to bend your mind around an entirely different tactical mindset makes it much more challenging to play.

Like the others, I would suggest that you try a few games with the battle boxes (or their equivalent). Talk with your friend about the different win conditions, and try out some of the different tactics. I didn't really get into Warmachine and Hordes until I started trying to go for assassination runs - that for me both drove home the difference between the PP games and the rest, and opened my eyes to some of the errors I had been making.

Anyways, welcome to the fold, and don't give up! I would suggest that you find out who the local Press Ganger is (talk to your local FLGS) and set up a demo with them - they'll have a lot more experience running demo games.

[Duke]

No it is because the game is WEAK, lacks tactics see page 5

In the future, Try adding to the conversation, or answer in more detail why you think the game is weak.. .that would help answer the OP.

Duke

[Bigred]

Hey Freefall945,

My advice as another relatively new Warmachine player is don't in any way worry about the results of your first few games. Just try to get your head used to the turn sequence, and the core mechanics of the game, which are different than any other game system out there.

As others have mentioned I suggest you go small with a 15 pt game with a warcaster and a pair of jacks to start. Then add on an infantry unit and a solo to try out those rules.

You will be in there having a blast in no time. Warmachine is a great game, but it will take a little bit to get used to its fast pace and unit synergies. Don't give up. Its worth it, trust me!