New Imperial Assassin Stats

[DarkLink]

WS8 means Gaurd hit's you on 5's, and Space marines hit you on 4's. I think that's fair enough for something like a assassin. It's meant as a CHARACTER KILLER after all.


I'd like to point out the WS9 death leaper, witch Spacemariens can only hit on 5's.

=P

The death leaper is a special character, however. WS 9 isn't unreasonable then. But what's so special about an assassin that it gets WS 8? How is an assassin so much more skilled than, say, a Space Marine? WS 5 or 6 wouldn't be unreasonable. Even WS 7 for the cc assassins. But why 8?

[Lockark]

The death leaper is a special character, however. WS 9 isn't unreasonable then. But what's so special about an assassin that it gets WS 8? How is an assassin so much more skilled than, say, a Space Marine? WS 5 or 6 wouldn't be unreasonable. Even WS 7 for the cc assassins. But why 8?

there is more then one Death Leaper. The death leaper is less a special character and more a rare lictor variant.


As for why WS8? Because it's a Assassin? Assassin's don't train to kill your basic foot sloggers. They train to kill the biggest, baddest, toughest, and most elite S.O.B's in the galaxy.

When a Space marine chapter goes rouge, there the ones that get sent out to kill the rouge chapter master.

Chaos Lords, Ork War bosses, Farseers, the list goes on. Assassin's are set out to kill these target's. No if's, and's, or buts. They don't fight for honour like space marines. They fight to win.

They have been studying every aspect of your fighting style and know what move your going to make before you even know your going to make it.


Why WOULDN'T a assassin know how to take on there target mono-a-mono? Why would they be on par skilled or even less skilled then the target's there being sent after? They are meant to be character killers after all.




Even shooty assassins would be a force to reckon with in CC. Anything after that just being the gear that each temple specializes in.

[Valkerie]

I think people are getting far too worked up over the implications of a rumoured statline.

Amen. Can we at least wait until the codex comes out before crying about the end of the world?

[DarkLink]

there is more then one Death Leaper. The death leaper is less a special character and more a rare lictor variant.

Bah, details.

As for why WS8? Because it's a Assassin? Assassin's don't train to kill your basic foot sloggers. They train to kill the biggest, baddest, toughest, and most elite S.O.B's in the galaxy.

When a Space marine chapter goes rouge, there the ones that get sent out to kill the rouge chapter master.

Chaos Lords, Ork War bosses, Farseers, the list goes on. Assassin's are set out to kill these target's. No if's, and's, or buts. They don't fight for honour like space marines. They fight to win.

They have been studying every aspect of your fighting style and know what move your going to make before you even know your going to make it.

Why WOULDN'T a assassin know how to take on there target mono-a-mono? Why would they be on par skilled or even less skilled then the target's there being sent after? They are meant to be character killers after all.

Even shooty assassins would be a force to reckon with in CC. Anything after that just being the gear that each temple specializes in.

None of this answers why Assasins in particular get WS 8, when nothing else in the 40k universe that trains nonstop to kill their enemies as brutally as possible for hundreds and hundreds of years gets it.

[Bikeninja]

Everything in his statement explains exactly why the assassin should have such a high WS. Looking forward to this one. They should be awesome.

[DarkLink]

Everything in his statement explains exactly why the assassin should have such a high WS. Looking forward to this one. They should be awesome.

Not quite. It explains why he should have a high weapon skill. It doesn't explain why the weapon skill has to be so high compared to all sorts of other models in the game that, logically, would be more skilled than the assassin in outright hand to hand combat.

Remember, the big reason why assassins are deadly is not because they are so much more skilled than even the most skilled of opponents. It's because they catch those opponents with their pants down and kill them before they get a chance to defend themselves. Not to say that they aren't skilled, but the argument that "they should have that high a WS because they spend all their time training to kill all sorts of crazy stuff?" Well so does everyone else.

There are quite a few groups that I can think of that go through much more severe training, or have so many more years to build up their skill and experience, that the argument falls flat. If an assassin can train for one or two hundred years and get to WS 8, why can't a 200-300 year old Space Marine? A 400 year old Grey Knight? A 5000 year old Eldar Aspect Warrior? An 8000 year old Dark Eldar Archon? A 10000 year old Chaos Marine Daemon Prince?

The flaw with the argument is that it doesn't actually explain why the assassins get WS 8. He just says that they get it because they deserve it, an argument that collapses when you ask 'well, why doesn't just about everyone else in the 40k universe deserve it too?'

[Sir Biscuit]

None of this answers why Assasins in particular get WS 8, when nothing else in the 40k universe that trains nonstop to kill their enemies as brutally as possible for hundreds and hundreds of years gets it.

To be fair, most all of the special characters mentioned DON'T spend all of their time training to fight people. They must necessarily spend some time dealing with the logistics of their organization, planning engagements, organizing reconnaissance and other intelligence gathering, etc. While I'm sure they do train, I can't imagine they have nearly as much opportunity as an imperial assassin, who literally have all day every day to train for just the one thing. Extreme specialization leads to extreme results.

The real WTF comparison here is between an imperial assassin and Kharn, who has WS7. (Though his is kind moot, granted.) If I had to pick someone who is really good at swinging a weapon around, and who spend literally ALL his time doing it, it would be Kharn, so how is he lower? I guess he's been slacking since he got gorechild.

Really, though, enough *****ing. All this is is a rebalancing of the game, one codex at a time. Keeping stats down so that stagnant codecies can have stats that match the fluff is just about the dumbest way I can imagine to design 40k. Be happy this is happening, because it means when other armies do get their update, they'll be hella badass. PATIENCE.

[Lockark]

Assassins have high weapon skill because most charaters in the game now have stupid high weapon skills?
Chapter Masters and Chaos Lords have WS6...

Your telling me a Assassin who has trained all his life to be able to kill Space marine Chapter Masters and Traitor legion Lords, should be less skilled then the targets there going after? (Since you keep saying they should be WS5. With WS6 pushing it.)


Like I said. There Assassin's. Why the hell should they not be skilled enough to kill the target's who's job it is for them to kill? Why whould they train a Assassin from birth, and have them be that ineffective at taking down there targets?


Not to mention Space marines start there training at the age of 12-14. Taking boys who have already learned how to fight from there peoples, and refining it. Meaning the space marines use the fighting style they inherit from the people's they recruit from.


Assassin's are chosen from birth. There augmentations, Training, and upbring being all they have ever known since the day they learned to walk. They train to exploit the flaws in any fighting style.


Assassin's grow to be just as old as any space marine to boot. So you can't even argue somehow space marines get more training/live longer.

[Drew da Destroya]

Well, I'd guess the WS8 also takes into consideration the "Pants Down" effect. WS8 doesn't necessarily translate into direct hand-to-hand prowess, much like having a pistol doesn't mean you literally swing your power sword one more time. It's just a game mechanic meant to represent what's happening on the tabletop.

The assassin is WS8 because:
A)They are excellent fighters
B)They've managed to engage on their own terms (say, by setting off an emp device immediately before attacking, scrambling the Space Marine Commander's audio/visual helmet package, temporarily blinding him long enough to get a knife into his power pack, slowing him down for the rest of the fight)
and C) They may have done something previously to sabatoge their target before the battle began, such as poisoning their food, disrupting their equipment, or placing traps in the location where they knew they'd be fighting.

In a straight up boxing match, they'd get knocked out in the second round, but when they're able to engage on their own terms (and if the assassin is on the battlefield, they ARE engaging on their own terms... otherwise, the mission would've been aborted) they stand a much better chance.

At least, that's my interpretation. Overall, though... most of their targets will hit them on a 4+, and they'll hit their targets on a 3+. Pretty much just the WS3 schlubbos who didn't stand a chance anyway will need 5's to hit.

[DarkLink]

The real WTF comparison here is between an imperial assassin and Kharn, who has WS7. (Though his is kind moot, granted.) If I had to pick someone who is really good at swinging a weapon around, and who spend literally ALL his time doing it, it would be Kharn, so how is he lower? I guess he's been slacking since he got gorechild.

Exactly my point. The oddity isn't that the assassin has a high WS. It's that it is so much higher than some other things that we know are almost certainly more skilled than the assassin.

On a side note, there's no reason for a Vindacare to have WS 8. They spend all their time shooting, not training for CC. A high WS would still be reasonable, but I would question anything more than WS 5. And vise versa for BS on the other assassins.

Really, though, enough *****ing. All this is is a rebalancing of the game, one codex at a time. Keeping stats down so that stagnant codecies can have stats that match the fluff is just about the dumbest way I can imagine to design 40k. Be happy this is happening, because it means when other armies do get their update, they'll be hella badass. PATIENCE.

I agree with this. Part of why I was surprised that the DE Harlequins are identical to the current ones. I would have thought they would have been updated...