1000pt IG vs Daemons Game

[Grubbslinger]

Hello! So I have a 1000pt game as IG vs Daemons this Thurs. His list has been killing everyone in an escalation league we are in so I figured I needed to get my game face on. Thus, I ask for advice on best how to handle Daemons. The main problem is that he is running a Bloodthirster along with a Daemon Prince. That weapons skill 10 is not good against my IG so I need to take something that can kill it quick. My thoughts were taking a Punisher with Pask and let him come to me. This would give me 20 shots, hitting on a 3+, with re-rolling wounds though only wounding on a 5+. I only need to do four wounds to take him out and the Pasknisher seems to be a way to do it in one shot.

I am also running a Vendetta and Valk. I could change the Valk to another Vendetta to try an hit him with three twin-linked lascannon. I also am running two vet squads with meltas. Maybe find some points for demolitions?

The rest of his list seems pretty easy to handle with Plaugebearers and Blooddrinkers or whatever you call the khorne troop choice. Anyways, I could use any advice you guys have to take out Daemons. I think I have a pretty good strategy running but this is the first time I have ever played a Daemon army.

[DaveLL]

Hello! So I have a 1000pt game as IG vs Daemons this Thurs. His list has been killing everyone in an escalation league we are in so I figured I needed to get my game face on. Thus, I ask for advice on best how to handle Daemons. The main problem is that he is running a Bloodthirster along with a Daemon Prince. That weapons skill 10 is not good against my IG so I need to take something that can kill it quick. My thoughts were taking a Punisher with Pask and let him come to me. This would give me 20 shots, hitting on a 3+, with re-rolling wounds though only wounding on a 5+. I only need to do four wounds to take him out and the Pasknisher seems to be a way to do it in one shot.

I am also running a Vendetta and Valk. I could change the Valk to another Vendetta to try an hit him with three twin-linked lascannon. I also am running two vet squads with meltas. Maybe find some points for demolitions?

The rest of his list seems pretty easy to handle with Plaugebearers and Blooddrinkers or whatever you call the khorne troop choice. Anyways, I could use any advice you guys have to take out Daemons. I think I have a pretty good strategy running but this is the first time I have ever played a Daemon army.

You'll almost certainly need more than one unit for this job. I'll run some numbers for you. Keep in mind what everything costs.

Pasknisher may not be a bad idea, though keep in mind that the range is only 24". A thirster has a 12" move and a 6" charge, so you may not have much leeway there. Let's assume, for the moment, that you do successfully get to shoot his thirster with your Pasknisher. On average: 13.3 hits, 7.4 wounds, 2.5 unsaved wounds. (Keep in mind, of course, that the dice can always do things you don't expect, but it's useful to keep in mind a rough estimate for how much you can expect something to do.)

Melta isn't that useful against non-SG daemons. Plasma guns have longer range (and will therefore actually get to fire) and almost as much S. And let's be honest, any guardsman who gets close enough to a bloodthirster to shoot him with a plasma gun will probably be dead the next turn, so "gets hot" doesn't really hurt you too much there. A single squad of vets with 3 plasma guns gets 2 hits, 1.3 wounds, .7 unsaved wounds (against the 4+ inv save instead of the armor 3+). (Plus whatever the rest of the squad does.)
Demo charge is almost certainly not worth the points for this purpose.

Vendetta w/ TL lascannons: 2.3 hits, 1.9 wounds, .9 unsaved. Much longer range, however, and you can more effectively stay away from the thirster while you're shooting at it. Just keep in mind that your opponent's army is coming in via DS, and therefore you're unlikely benefit from more than about 36" of the range at most.

WS10 isn't really your problem, BTW. High WS just means he hits slightly more often in CC, and you hit slightly less often in CC, which is almost irrelevant compared to the S and T differences. But you are definitely correct that you can't afford to let him get into CC with a major part of your force. That said, sacrificing a squad and making sure it dies when he charges it, instead of on your next turn, may give you an extra round of shooting at the thirster, even if it does cost you that squad.

[Nungunz]

Just take a balanced, all-comers list that you would take against any other army. Tailoring a list to take on a specific army is a cop-out, takes no skill, and makes the game rather boring.

/end rant

That being said, daemons aren't really a challenge for IG, especially since he is sucking up close to 40-50% of his army in 2 models. Couple that with the fact that only half of his army will show up turn one and there is only a 50% chance that his favored half shows up you will probably only be facing one of the 2 MCs off the bat.

Just castle up like you normally would for DS defense (though it doesn't sound like he has any shooting so this may not be needed). Bait him in with a sacrificial unit. He can't assault the turn he shows up so just pour all of your fire into the the MC during your shooting phase and it will most likely die.

I've never had a problem against deamons. I play IG as well and at 1000 points I dropped a Great Unclean One and 3 Fiends from his first wave before they could do anything. From there on out it's easy as cake as the rest of the army shows up piecemeal.

What list do you normally run?

My standard 1000 point army is:

CCS - x4 Melta, Chimera
VS - x3 Melta, Chimera
VS - x3 Plasma, Chimera
PCS - Autocannon
IS - Autocannon
IS - Autocannon
Scout Sentinel - Autocannon
Demolisher
Demolisher

[DaveLL]

BTW, as Nungunz says, it shouldn't be that difficult to take out a daemon army with IG, as long as the tournament organizer hasn't come up with some weird rules. The "not that difficult" thing relies on the army following the basic rules, no matter what the scenario is:

He's splitting his force into two waves with an equal number of units (not models, units) or as close as he can get to equal. He's rolling to see which wave comes in first, deepstriking on his first movement phase; the rest come in as deepstriking reserves, rolling for each unit individually.
He's rolling for DS scatter as normal, and taking dangerous terrain tests if he lands on any kind of terrain and rolls on the mishap table if any of the models in a unit end up on impassable terrain, or on top of other units, or within 1" of one of your units. If he has an icon to remove scatter, it only works if it was on the table the turn before he's using it.
None of his models are assaulting on the turn they come in, under any circumstances.

Last: do your best to keep a less-important squad or vehicle in between the thirster and/or daemon prince and your tank(s). You would probably rather have it charge those than your pricey and useful Russ.

[Legoklods]

The Bloodthirster is the badest motherf*cker in codex: Daemons! Unless you get twice the blodthisters points in heavy bolters and/or auto cannons, I suggest you start preparing to lose with dignity...

Btw: when you play as guard against daemons - never leave home without the astropath (or whatever it is that makes it more difficult for the enermy to get their reserves in...)

Other than that, I wish you good luck... you're going to need it!

[Nungunz]

The Bloodthirster is the badest motherf*cker in codex: Daemons! Unless you get twice the blodthisters points in heavy bolters and/or auto cannons, I suggest you start preparing to lose with dignity...

Meh, Nurgle Daemons are harder to kill. Lascannons, Plasma, Melta, Autocannons, Missile Launchers, Multi-Lasers, heck even Grenade Launchers will bring it down fairly quickly.

He'll try to bring the Bloodthirster in within 18" when it shows up to hopefully get the charge off the next turn. Use that to your advantage and shell the hell out of it.

Btw: when you play as guard against daemons - never leave home without the astropath (or whatever it is that makes it more difficult for the enermy to get their reserves in...)

It's a nice bonus, but not required at all. At 1000 I'd rather spend points on more guns for IG.

[Grubbslinger]

Just take a balanced, all-comers list that you would take against any other army. Tailoring a list to take on a specific army is a cop-out, takes no skill, and makes the game rather boring.

/end rant

The point of the post was more to get general advice then to feed me a list that would kill daemons. I only mentioned the Punisher-Pask and extra Vendetta because I already planned on taking them at 1850, so I am not really trying to tailor. Beside, he also knows my list and has fought against in a higher point game, I would say its even ground.

But anyways, thanks for the advice its really helpful. I am a little worried of turtling too much as im afraid he will get me into assault and I wont be able to bring my fire power against him as effectively. Knowing the Daemon deployment rules though makes this seem like a better idea. I didn't know how it worked, thanks for explaining to me guys!

The list I run:
Basic CCS

Vet with Melta and Penal Legion in Vendetta/Valk- reserved and outflanking.

Three other vet squads with Autocannons

For 1000, I planned to take some sort of tank. I figured the Punisher would be best to bring in, either that or demolisher since range would not be as much an issue with units coming straight too you.