Has the internet ruined 40K? Can it save it?

[DevilUknow]

Reading Goatboy's article ([URL="http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/08/goatboys-40k-thoughts-quick-and-dirty_23.html"]here[/URL]) really got me thinking about the role the internet can, does and should play in our hobby.

It is easy to point out the effect of instant, world wide communication has had on competitive play. Hard lists can often be described using one word cliques (Nob Bikers, Nidzilla, Lash, etc) as dominate strategies and powerful builds spread around the world instantly. If you seriously plan on being competitive, you had better keep on top of these. Imbalances certainly exist in 40k, and certain builds enable victories without the same degree of effort and chance that other builds require to achieve the game goals.

So if 40k is ONLY a competitive tournament game where it is often the player willing to spend the most money on models who wins, then the internet will definitely hasten the arms race.

However, the net can enable far more than simple net decking (as it is known in Magic: The Gathering). It can also enable more meaningful, persistent hobby play.

Wizards of the Coast's RPGA system or Privateer Press' Call to Arms League are great examples of meaningful, long term play. You get persistent rewards (treasure, veteran units, one off stratagems and bonuses, etc), there are custom scenarios and rules released monthly (or even weekly) that impact how your play and it encourages people to get involved in more friendly ways (terrain building sessions at your FLHS for example).

I'd personally love to see GW put together something like an online Planetary Empires League, where players can accrue points, earn stratagems, opt into special challenges, participate in special events and generally have something do beyond planning and painting for the next cut throat tournament rumble.

Hell, throw in a system where other players can give you points for painting, theme, fluffiness, etc.

And to top it off, make these League meaningful for players. Release limited edition models that support them. Have the results of top players impact the 40k Universe and give them attention in WD.

Of course, players don't HAVE to wait for GW to put something together.

[Levitas]

"If you can't win without taking the toughest list in the book, you aren't a particularly good player."

I actually really liked this comment from Paris in that article. It sums it up for me.

Now, i'm a decent player winning about 75 to 80% of my games. But at 'super-list level' I simply can't field a strong enough list, and waste a few hours of my time rolling dice and thinking about what I should have for dinner.

The thing is, that we can all play casual lists. But finding opponents who think the same is rare. Loosing is fine, but you want to feel you have a winning chance at least. I strongly believe that sub-standard players hide behind auto-win super lists, like tekken newbies who pick Eddy and mash buttons. Frustrating, but unstoppable.

It's debatable how much GW knows and cares about the growing problem in its premium game. Tournaments are to blame initially, but in any game you get competitive eventually as you get into it. I think they should split 40k up and have multiple classes almost.

[Aldramelech]

I don't play in tournaments anymore, haven't done for years. I walked away from it all about 6/7 years ago as even then I found the whole scene jaded and depressing. I play 40k at my local wargames club and nowhere else. Playing 40k is supposed to be fun and if it ain't fun then I don't want to play.

I think the problem with the internet and sites like this is that many people like myself don't bother with them (Two of my regular opponents wouldn't dream of being on here) so you get a slightly biased view of the hobby from them.

I'm quite sure for every hard core tournament player on sites like this there are two or three 'fun' players keeping thier opinions to themselves and playing just for the enjoyment of the hobby.

I don't even look at many of the army lists here, I'm not looking for the 'Killer' army, I'm after the army that looks like I imagine it to look and operates the way I would imagine it to operate weather this puts it at a disadvantage or not.

I think that there are far more people like me then people would imagine and consequently the hobby is in safe hands.

[Chumbalaya]

I strongly believe that sub-standard players hide behind auto-win super lists, like Tekken newbies who pick Eddy and mash buttons. Frustrating, but unstoppable.

If you really believe there are auto-win lists, maybe you should go back to tiddlywinks.

The internet is a great place for butthurt casuals to cry about their last beating and how cheesy the attractive and successful tournament players are.

See, I can make sweeping blanket generalizations too.

the internet has made mass communication people to one can find people to identify with anywhere. It's no longer the lone fluff player in the lion's den of competitive players or the ostracized competitive player looking for a challenge in Jervis's "you're doing it wrong" utopia. People can share ideas and improve their enjoyment of the game. People who like to play competitively can find like-minded people and organize challenging games while fluff players can exchange ideas.

[warpcrafter]

I tend to ignore the whole tournament scene. I pick army lists that I think might be interesting to play, and I put them out there regardless of the opponent. That means I lose most of the time, but I don't care. As far as the internet goes, I don't think GW cares what we think. They will go on doing whatever will line their shareholders' pockets regardless of whether or not it's good for the hobby.

[mcl]

I think on balance the internet helps the hobby.

The wealth of information provides a huge leg up to prospective and actual members of the game.

The down side is the often rather 'clique-ey' communities that exist where newcomers are often treated with disdain and outright contempt. Unless said newcomer is wise to the ways and wiles of the internets communities, then they will be put off.

Personally I find these sites - Warseer, BOLS, etc - very useful for all aspects of the game/hobby. I respect the serious players tournament list building and single-minded desire to win. And I respect the folk who just want nice fluffy armies to put on the board and play - for the pure fun of it. These sites support both perspectives and types of player and if these players respective philosophies lead to the occasional conflict... well. See previous comment regarding the ways & wiles!

Mind you the next time I see a vet tell a newbie to search first then ask - I think I might scream. Unless you know google very well, then the basic forum search capabilities just arent good enough. Unless the site admins are on the ball many of the typical abbreviated search terms will not have been added to be indexed. Case in point - try searching for 'SM' or 'IG" here within the BOLS Lounge. Two and three letter words are not indexed on most boards. Specific terms have to be added... (true for VB at least)

And while we are on, where are the Tags & Tag Clouds?

Anyway I am digressing. Internet? On balance - good thing!

[DevilUknow]

To say that GW "doesn't care" I think is wrong. If players (ie customers) are getting pushed out of this (very expensive) hobby because they're not finding any games since there doesn't happen to be a local saint putting on exciting events beyond simple tournaments then I think GW cares a-lot.

GW should be thinking of their games not as a tourney sport or as just a product, but as a service; enabling exciting fantasy battles that hook players into playing more (with models that just happen to cost an arm and a leg but thats OK due to the good times). This means doing more to enable small operators and their own stores to rope in players with more just stand alone games, even if all they do is link stores together with meaningful events and provide things like Campaign Kits, prizes and a bit of free advertising in the form of WD coverage.

RPGA for D&D started as a simple, one off competitive tournament into the "Living" systems they use now, and by all accounts I've heard from people who run and participate in them, they're a great success. I think GW could similarly expand into providing this kind of service by running events at high profile events like PAX, Gen Con, Comicon and expanding them into their own and 3rd party stores from there.

I think it would hook a lot of people who've considered playing but haven't or quit due to a lack of events that interested them.

[Nabterayl]

I think the internet can be used by gamers to hurt their own experience of 40K. It's easy to come onto a forum, read or receive advice about the game that contrasts with your own experience, and feel like you must not be a good player because Everybody Knows that the list, doctrine, tactic, or unit that you've been using all this time is stupid and newbish.

It's easy to forget that most of the people whose thoughts you read on the internet are not people you're ever going to play with, and it's the people you play with that matter. I think that when people forget that, they have used the internet to hurt their experience - but that's not really the internet's fault; it's a result of people not having a handle on their insecurities.

I think the internet is useful for providing information, whether it's information about what the tournament scene looks like, how people actually play a particular rule, hobby advice and inspiration, or whatever. The trick is to make sure that you know what you actually care about, and then make sure you're using the internet for that, and not letting the rest of it bother you.

[Ignatius]

I feel it's the user of the information that is at fault not the posting of it . If someone plays with little or no sportsmanship it makes it an ordeal for me insted of fun. It is the lack of manners and sportsmanship that makes for bad gamers not the lists they play with. Please and thank you go along way in making a game enjoyable. just my opinion. (I know everyone has one )

[Nikephoros]

Its a fact that competitive play moves product. If GW was smart they would encourage it more and fully support the GT scene rather than retreating from it. Without the Pro Tour Magic the Gathering would have probably died or at least collapsed into a tiny fan base a decade ago.

I don't think anyone wants 40k to turn into Magic the Gathering, but from a basic sales perspective GW should do everything they can to support competitive play without ignoring casual play. 'Ard Boyz is a step in the right direction, but instead of annually, it should be quarterly and the prize support should be better. Give the competitive players something to do on a regular basis and they wont spend time massacreing casual players.