Helions

[Tynskel]

I am not sure if this has been discussed or not:

The Helion 'Stunclaw'.
Snatching a character out of combat, and remaining in combat with the IC. This is a huge advantage! Hit n' Run will allow a unit to escape protracted engagement, but also gives them an 'easy' kill vs an independent character. What's better: you gain an easy pain token!

This is great!

Turn x--- charge into combat. Hit n' Run. Drag Character out. Opponent's turn--- can't shoot you--- locked in combat! Assault Phase-- kill character, gain pain token.
Turn x+1 Charge into combat. Hit n' Run--- Drag Character out--- ect.

This can be quite deadly against armies that have lots of Characters--- ie, Space Wolves and Blood Angels. However, both of those armies also are damn good at CC, so they'll beat up the Helions too.

[DaveLL]

I am not sure if this has been discussed or not:

The Helion 'Stunclaw'.
Snatching a character out of combat, and remaining in combat with the IC. This is a huge advantage! Hit n' Run will allow a unit to escape protracted engagement, but also gives them an 'easy' kill vs an independent character. What's better: you gain an easy pain token!

This is great!

Turn x--- charge into combat. Hit n' Run. Drag Character out. Opponent's turn--- can't shoot you--- locked in combat! Assault Phase-- kill character, gain pain token.
Turn x+1 Charge into combat. Hit n' Run--- Drag Character out--- ect.

This can be quite deadly against armies that have lots of Characters--- ie, Space Wolves and Blood Angels. However, both of those armies also are damn good at CC, so they'll beat up the Helions too.

I'm afraid you haven't really thought through the mechanics. Stunclaw allows you to hit & run with an IC... but hit & run doesn't allow you to move reliably far enough away from your opponent's squad. Without further prep, you're just going to allow your opponent's squad to charge you on their turn.

You could theoretically multi-charge, leaving a unit locked into combat with the squad while your hellions are locked with the IC. Alternatively, you could try to hit & run into cover, and hope your opponent rolls low enough on moving through cover that the squad doesn't reach you. The first one would likely be difficult to pull off - it'll be difficult to maneuver into place two units that are reliably large enough to stick around more than one combat round but not enough to kill the opponent's unit outright or cause it to fail a morale test. The second relies on friendly terrain nearby and reasonably lucky dice rolling, but at least nothing beyond that.

In short: it's interesting, but it's not the awesome power it seems to be at first glance.

[gcsmith]

Dont forget the enemy has a chance to pwn you before you make your hit and run move.
Anyway seems to me that everyone is after helions or reavers. Ignoring the simple joy of scourges, which are my faves with 4+/6++.

[BuFFo]

Scourges went from arguably the worst unit in 40k to being usable!

Remember, Hellions are not power houses in CC. Sure you can drag out a Wolf Lord or a Phoenix Lord, but good luck trying to kill them

[DrLove42]

See if i'd use them for it it'd be a scarificial unit

Your assault charge in, then hit and run take IC with you
Their turn, hope the squad you just yanked him out of is far enough away so they don't get into assault, have your guys all die in CC, and hope the IC doesn't consilidate back into his squad
Your turn shoot the crap out of a guy who can't put wounds on his squad

[somerandomdude]

See if i'd use them for it it'd be a scarificial unit

Your assault charge in, then hit and run take IC with you
Their turn, hope the squad you just yanked him out of is far enough away so they don't get into assault, have your guys all die in CC, and hope the IC doesn't consilidate back into his squad
Your turn shoot the crap out of a guy who can't put wounds on his squad

You don't have to worry about the consolidation. An IC can only join (or leave) a unit during its own movement phase. If they started the assault as seperate units (which in your example they would) then they can not join together until the next friendly movement phase, which is plenty of time for your Dark Lances and/or splinter weapons to go to work.

The only ICs I can really see this being useful against, however, would be Sanguinary Priests, or possibly Librarians. Most other ICs aren't important enough to throw away a unit IMO (or they've already done their damage i.e. Vulkan) or they are pretty tough (and maybe with a squad that is tough) and either kill your hellions first OR demand so much shooting at them that it almost wouldn't be worth it.

[Blackyujiro]

Taking a lagre Hellion based army(3 squads of 15), and having played a few games proxying them. I have to agree that the Stunclaw snatching is very situational and can be difficult to coordinate. the only one I take is on the Helliarch in Sathonyx's squad. I've managed to use it once, pulling a Lord Commissar out of unit, which I'd already shot down to about 20%. So, after assault, the Lord Commissar and 1 IG Vet were all that was left.

But, it is a really fun trick, as it's new and opponent won't really know about it, or have forgotten that Hellions can it(if they read the codex). i don't expect many players to even use it, unles they are going very Hellion heavy in their list like I am. So it will probably become one of those "forgotten" tricks after a while.

[Tynskel]

Yeah, that's true, but it is something fun! I would still Hit n' Run in any case, when you think about it. They can't blast you the next round.

Also, something to think about:
Hit n' Run means you can go any direction you please. That has its own advantages. Also, some things to try will be to hop over a skimmer or a piece of terrain, denying your opponent the chance to strike back.

I do agree, though, Most ICs are pretty beefy, and are usually placed with a beefy squad, so your helions are going to get roughed up!

What makes me giddy, though, is that this is a very new tactic, and I look forward to coming up with ways to counter it.

[Blackyujiro]

If you take lagre squads, you have a good chance of circumventing some of the damage you take bake in CC. With 60 potential S4 attacks(S5 w/two Pain Tokens and S6 w/Token&a roll of 3 on Combat Drugs). That's a whole lot of possible wounds to save. So it's very likely that with lagrer squads, the Stunclaw tactic will be much easier to pull off.