Manouverability

[slobulous]

I don't want to discourage you but a footslogging Eldar army is, quite honestly, going against how the Eldar are meant to be played. Eldar are fragile, but they have speed to make up for it. A footslogging army needs to either have tough, durable troops, or a lot of numbers. They need to be able to take the pounding that they WILL recieve as they trudge across the table. Eldar do not have durability nor great numbers. By footslogging, you are now fragile AND slow. I believe it is time for you to update your army to match the general playstyle of 5th edition, which involves much more mobility than previous editions.

[Mal]

I don't want to discourage you but a footslogging Eldar army is, quite honestly, going against how the Eldar are meant to be played. Eldar are fragile, but they have speed to make up for it. A footslogging army needs to either have tough, durable troops, or a lot of numbers. They need to be able to take the pounding that they WILL recieve as they trudge across the table. Eldar do not have durability nor great numbers. By footslogging, you are now fragile AND slow. I believe it is time for you to update your army to match the general playstyle of 5th edition, which involves much more mobility than previous editions.

This is true... to a degree.

However its is also true that the majority of 40k players now days are reasonably well adapted to dealing with mobile armies... so the sudden shift in tactics required to take on a foot army should be enough to give you a small advantage... beyond that, its up to your unit choices, overall stragety and tactics to capatalise on that advantage.

What makes a unit good isn't just what it can do, but also what it does to the concentration and battle plan of your opponent.

[Tynskel]

an eldar foot army can be quite impressive. Heavy weapons teams, guardians, and an Avatar to 'guide' them can make a serious opponent.

All jetbikes and serpents is not the only way--- I have seen all foot eldar kick butt.

[DarkLink]

I don't want to discourage you but a footslogging Eldar army is, quite honestly, going against how the Eldar are meant to be played. Eldar are fragile, but they have speed to make up for it. A footslogging army needs to either have tough, durable troops, or a lot of numbers. They need to be able to take the pounding that they WILL recieve as they trudge across the table. Eldar do not have durability nor great numbers. By footslogging, you are now fragile AND slow. I believe it is time for you to update your army to match the general playstyle of 5th edition, which involves much more mobility than previous editions.

You missed the whole debate over footdar lists, didn't you. As Tynskel said, they can actually be really nasty, and have actually done pretty well in tournaments lately.

[Mal]

Espically footdar backed by eldrad... that can be quite nasty, and most players are simply not equipped to deal with it.... after all AT weaponry may kill a landraider in one shot... but it'll only kill a single guardian, and thats if they are not in cover...

[Tynskel]

Eldrad is good for Eldar Foot Armies.

I have seen him and an Avatar for HQ. Then throw in a squad of Wraithguard and 3 Wraithlords with missile and bright lance. Then just a mixture of guardians with hv weapons and an Elite choice. I think that's around 1500. If you are going to 1850 or 2000, one can easily expand to scorpions for infiltrators and warp spiders for deep strikers. 4 monsterous creatures and lots of guys... almost sounds like a bug army!

[AbusePuppy]

First off I would like to apologise for being too vauge in my question but thank you for trying to answer.
To be more specific; I am talking about eldar for this thread. Unlike my other armies I can't throw them at the enemy like frag grenades and as Bryss mentioned my only transports are a falcon and wave serpent. I have a fair amount of foot eldar and I plan to bulk out with more DA and guardians. What my question really is; How do you use an eldar force effectiveley with little transport?
Basically my eldar force consists of;
Farseer, Avatar, 6Banshees, 6Dragons, 6Scorps, 10DA, 10Guardians(+warlock),5 Rangers, 6Hawks, 5Reapers, Wraithlord, Falcon and wave serpent.

1. How effective are we talking here? Do you want to win tournaments, or do you just want to not get rolled when you go out for a casual game?

2. More DA probably aren't going to help the list- alongside mobility there is also the issue of "reach," i.e. how far away you can affect the enemy. If you can't do anything to them beyond 18", you are going to be in real trouble against melee armies and such.

3. Swooping Hawks are just awful. I'm really, really sorry, but they are. The best you can hope for is yo-yoing in and out, dropping grenades on people- and that's paying over a hundred points for a S4 AP5 blast each turn. (Hint: A Basilisk costs about the same, but is S9 AP3 and Ordnance Barrage.) The first step to doing well is going to be losing them so you aren't getting weighed down.

4. Two vehicles in a list like this is just gonna be trouble- they'll be the focus of all the enemy's AT fire. You want to take a lot of targets of the same type so the enemy doesn't have enough guns to shoot them all. Avatar, 2 Wraithlords and a Falcon could work reasonably well in this way. A second Wave Serpent might also be useful, but not strictly necessary; basically, I would strongly suggest upping the total monstrous creature plus vehicle count to 5+, or drop them altogether.

5. Too much diversity of units. I know they look cool and are very neat to have a wide selection to pick from, but you have (for example) only one unit that can realistically kill transports, the Fire Dragons. You want multiple units in the same role, even if they aren't the same actual unit. As it is, you have just a wide smattering of different things that do different jobs and your army has very little focus.

6. Guardians with Weapon Platforms are one of the few good things about Footdar- they're fragile as all get out and have crap for leadership, but it IS a mobile heavy weapon. Scatter Laser can be nice for shutting down low-AV vehicles (Orks, DE, etc) and is cheap; the multiple shots help compensate for shoddy BS. Missile Launcher is probably your next best bet, unless I'm remembering wrong and that isn't one of the options. Do not underestimate the ability to move 6" and shoot.

7. Scorpions also seem like a weak link; nothing else in your army infiltrates, so they'll end up all alone and get trashed very easily. Harlequins are a better way to run a killer assault unit (they are also superior to Banshees, as it happens), especially if you have Doom on your Farseer, which you totally should. They are also a good place to hide the Farseer himself, as it can be very awkward for the enemy to target them and 4+ cover or 5+ invuln being rerolled is rather tough to break through except by dumping tons of shots into it.

8. If you're looking to expand and want to stay in the foot theme, I would heavily recommend more Guardians with HWs, another Wraithlord, and Harlequins as your superior choices. Don't take DA, they just aren't that good.

You'll notice that I didn't talk about mobility or any of that much. The reason is pretty simple: list first, then tactics. There's no point in learning to play a bad list well, and whatever I may think of Footdar, that list didn't even optimize its strengths. You wouldn't learn to shoot on a gun with broken sights and you shouldn't try to learn to play with an army that doesn't work right, either; now, there's something to be said for letting folks learn for themselves what works and what doesn't, but there's also something to be said for giving help when it's asked for.

In terms of how to use the army, I would say you need to be doing a couple things. First, keep to cover; without it, your fragile elf bodies are dead meat. Second, make sure you have long-range firepower. If they can outmove you- and most every army will, since you're on foot- you need to outrange them. Third, stay together. Eldar rely on synergy between their units; Harlequins and Wraithlords charge units that get in close while Reapers and weapon platforms pound things at a distance. You're also making extensive use of your Fearless bubble and the buffs handed out by the Farseer, so don't stray too far.

Edit: Pathfinders(Rangers) are also useful shooting units. Build a firebase around them and harass enemy infantry. Make sure to remember that pinning check.

[Lupercal]

You seem to be collecting the same way I did when I started Eldar: one of each unit, to try them out. However, there does come a point when it's time to concentrate on one or 2 things. For me, using the descriptions of the major Craftworlds helped me get some focus. I ended up with 21 Rangers in my army, but otherwise still had one of each unit. I still play this army successfully ten years later, though not in tournaments.

In my opinion, you could use a bit more maneuverability while keeping with the footdar idea. Try adding a squadron of 2 or 3 Vypers for mobile fire support. A unit of Jetbikes, even a small one, can have at least 1 Shuriken Cannon and is very mobile as well. Also, I can't say enough about using Pathfinders (Rangers): they aren't very mobile, but their 36" range really lets them reach out and touch someone with their deadly shooting. I usually use 2 units of 5 Pathfinders in cover with open fields of fire. The pinning tests they cause will really frustrate your opponent.

In regard to AT, don't forget that your Hawks have haywire grenades. Unreliable, but they can be useful in a pinch.

Maximize your advantage in access to long range heavy weapons. One of your best defenses is your ability to kill the enemy before they are in range to kill you.

Warp Spiders are nice as well. A box of 6 will get you 14 shots at Str. 6. Use them as a diversionary force, deep strike them behind the enemy and whittle them down. They have some of the best armor in the codex, so if they get assaulted they can often tie a unit up for a round or 2. You also have the option of making that second jump if you need to, or of giving them hit and run to get out of those assaults.

Finally, the Avatar is a must. Eldrad is great, but I do well enough without him. He is an inexpensive (money-wise) way to kick your army up a notch.

[fuzzbuket]

id drop the avatar for a phienox lord.. a 6' melta gun that cant join squads is a HUGE target however either kandras/ asurmen or fuegan could boost your army.

however ive never seen 2 identicaleldar lists.. (- tourney net lists)

as everyone thinks diffrently and views synergy diffrently... some love hawks some will never leave wraithguard or avengers... some will always have a seer council.. others wont


olay a game agains a balanced army or your most usual opponent (e.g. army testing vs nidzilla is silly)

once played (game/turn/phase) think what unit should i have used.. then arfter the game re write your list then visulise a game in your head.. rinse and repeat.

people like ****/ goatboy/ darkwyn and jawaballs didnt become gaming gods by net lists or others lists they became good due to trial and error and thinking about how you could improve.

/rant over

-fuzz

[Master Bryss]

@'Scape: You forgot your Vyper mate.

@fuzzbuket: Ah, but the Avatar is also cheaper, and gives other benefits.

@Abusepuppy: I completely disagree with the point on lists. There is no such thing as a bad list so long as you have a decent chance of killing everything in the game, or you want to win a competitive tournament. The main point here is not being tabled completely in a casual game. Also, Dire Avengers are decent if monouse, but I'm sure that you can cope fine casually without all units having duality in some way.

As for your other points, I agree here. I've been telling him how good Harlies are for ages.