My name is Jim and I'm a Guard player

[Mal]

The point of any game is to have fun. The objective of any game is to win. The two should not be confused.

This pretty much sums it up... ohh and the understanding that the point of a game outweights the objective of a game.

As for lists, most of my 'competative' lists are not your standard powerbuilds... most of my lists are just regular all comer lists or specalised lists that I have worked on enough to remove a lot of the weaknesses they suffer from.
I also cover a lot of a lists weaknesses with good use of game stragety and tactics, but this is not to say I go all out in friendly games, I don't..

This is all my perspective and what im looking for in a game so it may not apply to everyone here...

In a friendly game I am looking for a nice relaxing match where I can BS with my friends while pushing our plastic toys across the board, win loose or draw really doesn't matter. Its essentially a nice way to kill a couple of hours.

In a competative game I am looking for a match that will challenge my tactical thinking, I want an opponent that can pull out suprises and make me have to stop and think before reacting. I want a close fought, nail biting game. Again, win loose or draw doesn't really matter.

Essentially I really don't care if I win or not, but in competative games I do try a lot harder to win.

Ohh and i've got a bit of news that will probally make a couple of people at my game groups call me even more names than usual... I've decided to start building an infantry heavy IG list (i.e. no AV in the list at all, although I'll probally add some in at a later date). The big problem I have with this is that I haven't played guard since third.

[Melissia]

Mobynick is right. People will *****. People constantly ***** . Wah wah wah overpowered, wah wah wah too strong, wah wah wah broken blah blah blah. These people end up being whiney, pathetic players who can't cope with change, they don't know how to change their tactics to something new, they don't know how to adapt, they aren't good players-- so instead they whine incessantly about anything and everything that comes along that might DARE upset the status quo.

Such opinions are worthless, and you should ignore them as such. I've had to adapt my Sisters for two editions now, I'm not gonna let some newfangled codex force me to lose. I may have an outdated codex but I'm not gonna sit there and take it and whine like a little *****. I'm going to figure out a way to win. This is the essence of what makes a competitive player, and it has nothing to do with playing in a tourney or anything, it has to do with one's attitude towards the winning versus whining spectrum.

People who constantly give in and give up because they refuse to even try aren't worth your time.

[scadugenga]

Ohh and i've got a bit of news that will probally make a couple of people at my game groups call me even more names than usual... I've decided to start building an infantry heavy IG list (i.e. no AV in the list at all, although I'll probally add some in at a later date). The big problem I have with this is that I haven't played guard since third.

I love my infantry heavy army. It may not be "optimized" like the leafblower, but it's chock full of threat and handles pretty well.

That, and I love dishing out tons of orders and popping mech list vehicles. Warms my cockles, it does.

[erwos]

Such opinions are worthless, and you should ignore them as such. I've had to adapt my Sisters for two editions now, I'm not gonna let some newfangled codex force me to lose. I may have an outdated codex but I'm not gonna sit there and take it and whine like a little *****. I'm going to figure out a way to win. This is the essence of what makes a competitive player, and it has nothing to do with playing in a tourney or anything, it has to do with one's attitude towards the winning versus whining spectrum.

So, you think it's fun to play with one hand tied behind your back? Some of us do not. I adjust my tactics and lists to go with the times, but when you're playing Chaos and they just introduced evil army of doom that seems to be tailor-made to slaughter your one really good troop choice... it's not like there's a new alternative that just pops up out of nowhere, or a new tactic that somehow prevents poison weapons from working. You're just screwed.

In a wargame, balance is a virtue, not a vice.

[Mal]

I take it you mean poisoned weapons that wound nurgle marines on a 4+... you do realise they still get a 3+ save and a 4+ fnp right?

So they wound on a 4+ rather then a 5+, its really not the end of the world.

The weapons are 1/6 better than a boltgun against them... so to make them have such a game breaking inpact the DE player will need to take dozens and dozens and get them all into rapid fire range.... you really won't see many DE armies like this, besides to get close enough to the nurgle marines the raiders will be in range of the meltagun (ohh whats that, 2 of the per unit?), so pop the transport and charge the soft chewy center. It will only take a few surviving marines to really ruin the day for 10 kabalite warriors in combat.

Ofc if you were talking about the other troop choices... they are the same to wound as any other MEQ unit so there is no real difference there.

Accept that there will never be balance in 40K... its been this way for a couple of decades, its not going to change, so adapt your tactics to deal with the new threat (i've already given you a good tactic so you have a place to start).

[fuzzbuket]

so according to this we should all play the same grey plastic army with no lavish paintscheme or conversions ?

im considering spending 100000000000000+ hours on a army and moan conststantly when that squad dies :P

[1st Satiran Fusiliers]

Hi "Jim," welcome to Spirit of the Gamer's Anonymous? I'm Johnny-come-lately to this discussion I guess, but I did want to tell you that I agreed with the intent of your original post. I had been toying around with the idea of posting something similar, just to get it "out there," so I thank you for being bold enough to actually do it where I was not.

If I might be allowed to try and push the train back onto its tracks, let me join you in asking, why are the Imperial Guard so "hated" nowadays? In many of the topics on BOLS, they are referred to as the #1, top-tier army right now, elevated into a class by themselves, "which a lot of people hate," and therin probably lies the fundamental answer. They've become a focal point - which I find astonishing. As a long-time Guard player (got into playing Guard with the release of the Mordian Iron Guard), I have to agree with a previous poster who said, the Guard have suffered for 8+ years with very poorly designed codexes. Always plenty of cool models to build and paint, then rank them up into the inevitable immobile gun line on the table, and watch as your opponent's mobile assault force dictates the battle. Back into the cases, lads...better luck next codex.

I find it both humorous and depressing that we now have a codex and points structure which grants the most options for Guard mobility in the history of the hobby, but because of the Guard's crippling inability to fight in hand-to-hand combat (and the horrifying vulnerability of armor in an assault), what we see now is a fully-mechanized, completely stationary gunline. As Porky-Poster said elsewhere on BOLS, it's dull. I would also call it a tragic waste, to have spent so much time modelling and painting those beautiful Chimeras, and then use them as bunkers. But what other reasonable choice is there? For the Imperial Guard, every advance, even a mechanized one, is a suicide charge. It has always been so (would that it were not). The more things change, the more they stay the same? The rules we have been given dictate the Guard play style, not the players. If my Mordians could charge gallantly across the field and win the day, then absolutely, I would charge, bayonets fixed!

My own humble opinion is that the hobby has (and should have) room for "serious competion" (in the form of tournaments, or pre-arranged grudge matches between friends at the LGS). However, I strongly feel that things have gone too far in this regard, and here it is that the game's designers at GW, I believe, have much to answer for. Balance...why can't there be more of it? Why must we accept that there will "never be balance" in 40K? I don't think it's right (or fair, or fun) that there is such a HUGE dichotomy between lists that are considered "competitive," vs. lists that are considered "friendly," or "fluffy," or which have recently been called "baby seals." If you or I bring our balanced Guard army that includes banners, storm troopers, power fists on Lieutenants, and vox casters in every boot squad, and all of this has been lovingly modelled and painted over the course of a decade, then should we not be able to expect that we can show up to a game and have a reasonable chance to win? Maybe we might be a leg-down against our opponent's slightly more optomized, tournament-ready list, but with some careful planning in the turn, and a bit of luck with the dice, we are still in with a chance. Maybe our opponent wins, but it was still a close and exciting game right up to turn 5 or 6. Is that too much to ask, oh GW overseers atop Mount Olympus? And yes...this kind of experience can, and does happen, but it requires some planning with your opponent beforehand. The pick-up style game, perhaps with an opponent you don't know very well...? Player beware. I recently played a couple of games against Road Rage Orks, completely optimized to deliver the charge on turn 2. No guns in the army to speak of, just death rollers, choppas, and klaws. It felt very much as though I were a baby seal, being clubbed - so bravo to whoever coined that term. The competitive difference between our lists was like unto the wideness of the Grand Canyon. Why is this dichotomy allowed? Why is it built right into the game?

I would like to cry foul, but I'm also willing to accept that the game has evolved into something which is (to me) completely bizarre, full of "deadly unit combinations," as though the designers start by planning these out, then work backwards, fleshing out the codex and adding back in the less-powerful, storyline units as distractors, or chaff through which the more clever players can enjoy milling through to get to the good stuff. Some would say to this, just adapt. My answer is, that the super-cool new models for my beloved army are expensive, and even when I do have the opportunity to pick one up, such as the Manticore, I will never place it on the table until it is fully painted to the utmost of my skill. I owe my opponent nothing less. So it takes months, if not years, to adapt to a new Codex. By then, we will probably be in a new edition of the game. And so the desire for balance within the rules becomes even more pressing.

But that doesn't seem to be the direction the hobby is going. I'm not sure what's changed, but I think the designers at GW should know better. Because this is a hobby with multiple levels, including modelling and painting, I believe they should be more concerned with designing rules that keep the playing field a tad bit more level. There are those of us, and I hope I'm not in the minority, who will never be satisifed with just slapping together a Leman Russ Eradicator and flinging it naked grey onto the table so we can feel competitive against the new Dark Eldar. I guess this is my desperate, futile call for a return to sanity, fairness, and fun within the beloved hobby that I've participated in for so many years...perhaps it sounds strange, even foolish, coming from a dedicated Guard player, who by all rights should be reveling in the harsh spotlight of Top Dog of the Moment.

All this to say, I suppose, thanks, "Jim," it's good to know there are others of like-mind out there, somewhere. The veterans of the Satiran Royal Guard have been granted the honour of being transported to the fields of glory within the blessed hull of the noble Chimera. To all other platoon commanders, request denied.

[Mycroft Holmes]

I built my IG army around the thing that I thought exemplified the IG in my mind and/or I thought was 'cool.' I didn't duplicate things over and over, I didn't take too many of the extremely undercosted Vendetas; I tried to create a balanced force of tanks and infantry that work well together. Not the most optimized list possibility by any stretch of the imagination and it says Imperial Guard to me when I put it on the table.

Leman Russ Demolisher,
LR Executioner,
Scout Sentinels,
1 Valk,
Hellhound
Manticore
2 Vet squads (chimera)
1 good sized Infantry Platoon with 2 heavy weapon squads of lascannons
1 command squad (no chimera)


It's ridiculous.
I destroy my opponents. Even in games where I lose, my opponent gets annihilated and barely feels like he's won. I do think I'm a pretty good player, but the amount of destruction I'm able to lay into my enemy... it always feels like I'm clubbing baby seals.

Mycroft

[Mycroft Holmes]

Or the designers for making things unbalanced. Not that I even think the IG codex is unbalanced.

I make video games for a living. When players abuse a mechanic it's not their fault. If a designer left a loophole or didn't properly balance a mechanic, you cannot blame the user for playing it to it's fullest.

They're playing to WIN and the designer is the one at fault; we're just left with the fallout.

Mycroft

[Mal]

I make video games for a living. When players abuse a mechanic it's not their fault. If a designer left a loophole or didn't properly balance a mechanic, you cannot blame the user for playing it to it's fullest.

They're playing to WIN and the designer is the one at fault; we're just left with the fallout.

Mycroft

As someone who does a lot of beta testing (for games and tabletop wargames) I can attest that this statement is 100% accurate.

However unlike most companies who put out unbalanced games, GW do it on purpose, it helps them sell stuff.