1.5-2k IG infantry

[Mal]

No vox casters? I thought they were supposed to be an almost vital upgrade??

I take it to make it all fit in to 1500 there is only 5 stormtroopers?

[Flammenwerfer13]

Depends on the use of troops, you can play with points a bit get them in but Vox casters are so/so. Especially since your issuing orders at leadership 9 on the infantry squads. The heavy weapons teams can't get vox casters and since you'll have have 4 orders per turn you should be using them all on the heavy weapons teams (LD 7) (bring it down will be your main stay with fire on my target). If you want the pick up vox casters for the infantry squads, drop the Heavy Flamers in the PCS and flamer in the CCS for Vox casters, then 1 vox caster in each combined squad (if your forced to allocate wounds to the vox caster then your screwed anyways. That will leave 20 points to play with. Maybe upgrade power weapons to power fist on the Officers?

Vox casters are ok but they depend on the style of play and what the units that are issuing and receiving are doing if you want to throw them in there.

[Mal]

I came up with a second list while messing around on army builder... trying to see how many vets I can fit into a 1500 army...

Lord commisar (carapace armour, power fist)
Company command squad (carapace armour, medipack, regimental standard, 2x plasmagun)
Company commander (power fist)
Master of ordnance
Bodyguard
Bodyguard

9 Storm troopers
Storm trooper sergeant (power weapon)

9 Storm troopers
Storm trooper sergeant (power weapon)

9 Storm troopers
Storm trooper sergeant (power weapon)

9 Veterans (3x meltagun)
Veteran sergeant (power weapon)

9 Veterans (3x meltagun)
Veteran sergeant (power weapon)

9 Veterans (3x meltagun)
Veteran sergeant (power weapon)

9 Veterans (3x meltagun)
Veteran sergeant (power weapon)

9 Veterans (3x meltagun)
Veteran sergeant (power weapon)

9 Veterans (3x meltagun)
Veteran sergeant (power weapon)

Total: 1500 points (99 bodies, all BS4 or higher)

[Flammenwerfer13]

My eyes they bleed!!!! Master of Ordnance ALWAYS scatters,which is bad!!

Also I play an all air drop list with vendettas, Valkyries and vet squads one thing I learn was specialize squads to certain task. Also carapace armour is a huge upgrade, so bolter fire won't wipe you out. Remember your in the open. A squad of 10 marines with 8 bolters is firing 16 bolter shots plus two non save weapons. They hit on average 10-12 times wound about 7-8 times plus usually 2 invulnerable saves. One marine squad will vaporize a +5 Veteran squad with out carapace armour. If your going to move shot, assault here is a balance list with out adding in Harken and Bastonne (Bastonne is worth every point by the way) Storm troopers work best in 5 man details getting the Recon Operations, Scout (Outflank) and Move through cover. So you can do a Space wolf style outflank pop up with two meltaguns pop a tank or worse case 5 krak grenades the turn they show up. Plus if your assaulting a unit 3 Hot-Shot pistols (they're equipped with them ) and 2 melta guns is a nasty surprise. Also Straken would be nasty with list if your willing work with cover and good at timing assaults, nothing makes a marine player cry then when a vet squad shots them up really well then beats them in assault. I laugh. Last thing is the Priest with a Eviscertor you can bounce around between and during games with his "chain fist"

Try this list reworked.

CCS: Astropath, w/ Carapace Armour, Regimental Standard w/ Laspistol, Medi pack w/ laspistol, 2x Meltaguns. Commander w/ Power Fist (180)
Lord Commissar w/ Carapace Armour and Power Fist (95)
Ministorum Priest w/ a shotgun and Eviscerator (60)
(3 power fist on the charge with re-roll to hit makes this a good counter assault unit for anyone who get close.

Elites:
2x 5-man Storm Trooper Squads w/ 2x Melta guns and a Sergeant with a Power weapon

Troops:
3x Base of fire squads equipped as followed:
Carapace Armour, 1x Melta gun, 2x Plasma guns, 1x Missile Launcher (also equipped with a lasgun), and 4 lasguns and a Veteran Sergeant with a laspistol and CCW

2x Counter Assault Squads equipped as followed:
Carapace Armour, 2x Melta guns, 1 Heavy Flamer, 6 Shotguns, Veteran Sergeant with a Shotgun and Power Fist

1x Anti Armour Sqaud equipped as followed:
Carapace Armour, Demolitions, 3x Melta guns, 6 Shotguns, Veteran Sergeant with a Shotgun and Power Fist

1x Anti-Light infantry Squad equipped as followed:
Carapace Armour, 2x Flamers, 1x Heavy Flamer, 6 Shotguns, Veteran Sergeant with a Laspistol and Power weapon

You can drop a plasma gun in each base of fire squad and upgrade the missile launcher to a lascannon if you want but missile launcher gives you flexibility between frag and krak missiles

[ElCheezus]

Okay, so if you're going for all on foot, and no armor or cavalry or mutants, you have very, very few options.

First off, Veterans without Chimeras (even with Carapace), are too vulnerable without a Chimera, and no good in CC. I'd only take them with Harker. With Infiltrate you can Outflank a group, which has its uses.

Lord Commissar is far too expensive, and an IC. If he's joined to a unit, he can be singled out too easily and lost before combat resolution, making him mostly useless. Your best HQ choices are going to be CCS, either with Creed and Kell for amazing order issuing, or with Strakken to buff your blobs. If you're going to do blobs backed by HWS, then I'd almost suggest both, but lean toward Creed and Kell if points don't allow. Having Kell means you don't need to use any Voxes, which is even better since HWS can't even take them.

Your Infantry Platoons are going to be a major part of your army, obviously. You'll want blobs of either 20 or 30. I personally found groups of 30 to be unfun, but their resilience can't be denied. You'll want these groups to be assaulting, which means you want a few things at minimum: 1) a commissar for each group, but not a lord commissar. The one you can buy as an upgrade isn't an IC, so he can't be picked out in assault. 2) PWs for anyone who can hold them. These usually do more damage than all of the other rank and file guardsman attacks 3) A priest with an Eviscerator and Shotgun. He gives you rerolls when you assault, which is amazing with that many attacks. As already suggested, Melta bombs and/or Krak Grenades are a must, as well. I lean toward Krak Grenades, in case you run into a Walker. Having 3 MB and needing a 6 to score makes me worry. I would never put a HW team in a blob. The blob should be moving and running if they're not in assault range. FRFSRF is good for something that's close, but needs to be softened up. In all of these cases, the HW team won't be able to fire.

Your PCS are in an odd spot. I wouldn't personally give them any CC equiment, because they're likely to get eaten before they swing, anyway. They're a good place to put Meltas. Hide them within a blob, and fire to take out transports or any vehicles. Otherwise only put them in CC if a blob is already engaged.

HWS are kind of self-explanatory. You'll want enough to provide long-range support. I suggest either AutoCannons or LasCannons. ACs are better, mathematically, than Missile Launchers at taking down transports of AV11 or 12. LasCannons are good, but a little 'spensive. Up to your taste.

You might want to look into Al'Rahem. His entire Platoon, including blobs and SWS have to outflank. Plus he has better orders than a usual PCS. This can give you flexibility and surprise to what is otherwise usually a slowish army. If you go this route, I could see an argument to add a Veteran Squad with Harker to add some punch. He totes a relentless Heavy Bolter, so adding some more firepower could support an outflanking blob. Maybe GLs, to keep the AP4 and decent range? I haven't though so much on them, so I'm guessing here. Of course, if you use outflankers, you'll want an Astropath to make sure you come in on the correct side.

Storm Troopers can also fill a vital role if you have no

So here's what I'm thinking.

CCS W/ Creed & Kell, w/ Lascannon, Astropath

Storm Troopers 5-man unit, Meltax2
Storm Troopers 5-man unit, Meltax2

Infantry Platoon:
Al'rahem w/ meltax4 (this is to taste, depending on your meta. Could easily be plasma orflamers if you have more infantry armies)
22 man-blob w/ Commissar, 3x PW, and Priest w/ Eviscerator
SWS (equp similar to Al'rahem's group for added punch)

Infantry Platoon:
PCS Meltax4
22 man-blob w/ Commissar, 3x PW, and Priest w/ Eviscerator
22 man-blob w/ Commissar, 3x PW, and Priest w/ Eviscerator
3x HWS with 3x LasCannons

Veterans w/ Harker and GLx3

Sorry about not calculating points: I'm at work without a 'Dex. There should be plenty to play with by adding SWS or HWT, ore even another platoon. I'm no master of foot guard, but that should give you a good idea of some of what I consider the main points.

[Mal]

Your suggesting taking a chimera for the command squad and characters from 3 different worlds...

The IG will not be my competative army, they are to replace my non competative army.

I don't want an army that will smash face when ever I play it, I want an army thats going to be fun to collect and paint and amusing to play (other then orks, I don't like painting green, which is why im selling them).

The army will be based roughly from commisar cain (although with catachans or cadians instead of valhallens, they are just too expensive and only come in male form). I'll probally do the pdf force from the second seige of perila as this will grant me access to lower ranked commisars (commisar cadets) and the PCF advisors (rorkins and visiter).

Yes I know cain had access to chimeras and salamanders during that engagement, however mixed IG tank force is simply too strong to be considered a friendly army in my local metagame, which is why its to be an all foot army.

I am taking a commisar lord to represent cain and attaching him to any squad that has a trooper with a melatgun to represent jurgen (thats going to be a fun conversion).

[ElCheezus]

I never mentioned a Chimera in the list. I find the idea of playing 4 different characters to be more angled toward fun than competitive. I actually think this list has quite a number of holes, especially when guard can play chimera vet spam that's oh-so-successful.

If you're looking for a purposely bad army, then why ask for help instead of just hitting "random" in your head and throwing things into place?

If you want something adhering to specific fluff, you might want to mention that, as well.

I'm coming across as a dick, but that's because I spent a while trying to help, and then you changed all the rules and shot down everything suggested. Heck, it even sounds like you've already made your list.

[Mal]

I never mentioned a Chimera in the list. I find the idea of playing 4 different characters to be more angled toward fun than competitive. I actually think this list has quite a number of holes, especially when guard can play chimera vet spam that's oh-so-successful.

If you're looking for a purposely bad army, then why ask for help instead of just hitting "random" in your head and throwing things into place?

If you want something adhering to specific fluff, you might want to mention that, as well.

I'm coming across as a dick, but that's because I spent a while trying to help, and then you changed all the rules and shot down everything suggested. Heck, it even sounds like you've already made your list.

Im not sure what sort of reply you expected from this... but I just spent the past 20 mins rewriting this reply to not be completly insulting. This is not a good sign.

For the record I have not changed the rules on anything, so im using the commisar lord as cain... that changes nothing, it simply means im going to include a commisar lord in my list, which has been a constant for every list I posted, perhaps I could have told people the reason for this but I honestly didn't see it as an issue.

I am not the kind of person to copy a weblist exactly, im the kind of person who takes inspiration and ideas from weblists and works them into my own, so don't be offended if I don't use your list per verbatim... I won't do that for anyone.

I admit I made a mistake about the chimera, when I first read your post (not the list) it sounded like you were strongly advocating the use of transports, I reread it after your reply and found my mistake. Apologies to you for that.

As for the rest, you couldn't be further from the truth.

I have not made my army list yet, I spend months (yes months, not hours) working on army lists before I buy an army, I have to do this because I live on a tight budget and if I didn't then I wouldn't be able to afford to play the game.

Anyway, I haven't discarded your suggestions, i've added them to my pool of ideas from which I work.
The only aspect I discarded was the use of HQ's from different fluff sources as this is a move GW made for 5th that I strongly disagree with.

I have to say though your comment about hitting a 'random button' to make my army lists was singularly insulting and probally the single least helpful comment i've received this year.
You have chosen to take offense where none was given. Please in future, consider first if someone is actually being offensive before taking offense.

[ElCheezus]

So tell me what your guidelines are, and what *is* working for you, and we'll go from there.

I didn't so much take offense as feel like my post was pointless, and that, as I said, you already had your mind made up. I dumped a whole lot of info, and all I got was "No. I'ma go do this." After this paragraph, though, I'm not interested in an internet fight, it doesn't get anywhere, and we'd bother rather make fun lists.

So a Lord Commissar HQ. I've never used one, so I don't know how to equip them. At all. /shrug

I don't know very much fluff, so I'm not so sure on what characters are "in."

If you like Catachans, Veterans might still have a place, if you give them "Forward Sentries". For some reason this always felt like a Catachan doctrine, with their forest theme. I'm pretty sure they get camo cloaks from there, so if you can stick to cover, that'll actually pay off. If you want to make sure you have cover, I've been toying with the idea of taking a large group of conscripts solely for a meatshield. They need some way to buff their Ld 5, though, so a Lord Commissar or a Priest would be good. (Priest especially, their WS is so low, they would really benefit from the rerolls) Hide your Vets in this group, and they'll have 3+ cover from intervening units and the cloaks. If you get assaulted, they can counter-charge with a Power Fist or something.

With Conscripts, it might be worth taking Chenkov and his ability "Send in the next wave". I like this ability mainly since it removes the conscripts from the table, and less because they can come back on. If your conscripts are being a meat shield, they can cluster the enemy and get in the way. Use Chenkov to kill them off, and suddenly the enemy is sitting in the open, no longer in combat; a good time for FRFSRF or flamers or other such implements of destruction. And they thought they were safe. . .

I spend a decent amount of time thinking about fun infantry stuff, but I usually don't have the patience to move that many models. So sad to say I have no idea how these thought play out, they just sound fun.

[Flammenwerfer13]

If you go this route, I could see an argument to add a Veteran Squad with Harker to add some punch. He totes a relentless Heavy Bolter, so adding some more firepower could support an outflanking blob. Maybe GLs, to keep the AP4 and decent range? I haven't though so much on them, so I'm guessing here.

Run Harken with 3x Grenade launchers and a Missile launcher and keep them in cover.
I also put camo cloaks on them so they get 3+ cover saves even if Harken dies and have defensive grenades. They're a good squad to sit on an objective and provide support by fire. Good luck having someone shot them off the target

155 or 185 depending on if you take camo cloaks or not.