Women GW gamers?

[Denzark]

Hang on a sec....

We quite clearly forgot GW already markets armies directly targeting girls.

TAU? All that 'Greater good' malarkey? clearly for girls.

And if you don't think Dark Eldar is aimed at bondage mistresses, just remember how they whine like biatches about not having had a new codex - I detect clear girly attributes every time they open their mouths...
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PS this is a humour warning if you don't take this as a joke.

[ducki3x]

I think a couple of key components have already been referenced above, but I'll weigh in with my $0.02.

1) Promote the creative side of the hobby - painting & converting - before the actual game. Guide them towards minis that they will enjoy working on, and then maybe an interest in the gameplay will follow.
2) Make stores more inviting to women, including hiring more women to work there & generally losing the whole Android's Dungeon vibe (I'm looking at you, scummy, dirty indie store down the street).
3) Tone down the hyper-agressive macho crap. I'm not talking about smacktalk or playing to win; I'm talking about using rape as a metaphor for dominant victory and tossing around racial & sexual ephithets ad infinitum. Again, more a problem with indie stores than the GW corporate ones in my experience.
4) While I don't think that the inclusion of more female minis is critical, I also don't think it could hurt, provided that the figures are army/race appropriate and are well sculpted.

Keep in mind that these suggestions are intended to make the hobby seem more inviting to women with mild-to-moderate geeky tendancies and who may (or may not) have someone nudging them into the hobby, not those who wouldn't give it a second thought no matter how much you tried...

[imperialsavant]

G'day eldargirl!
We have had a couple of girls/woman in our Club & enjoyed playing against them. Both were great painters & had a good grasp on the game & tactics. One was about 18 yoa & the other in her 20s. There was never any angist or problems. Sadly they both ended up moving to larger Towns closer to Sydney.

We now have a new girl coming with here with her boyfriend & she is also a extremely good painter & is also working on a Eldar Army.

I belong to the Yahoo Battle Sisters Group & there are a few female members & they are great contributors to the Group & one plays regularly in Tourneys & has never given any indication that she has faced any
hassels, then again she probably would not have complained if she had!
We had one group member Cannoness Athena who was a real 'Hoot" & used to get the boys stirred up in a real nice way. Didnt she do some great painting.

[Ulag Grimskar]

Well, as for me, the first ever Fantasy store I went to was run by a woman (a good-looking one as well) and a friend of hers, also female.
The first guy I encountered working there was said friends new boyfriend, who she met at some convention. So my first steps into the world of RPG and Tabletop-Wargaming were guided by two women. That also happened back when I was about 10, and I guess influenced my whole attitude towards women in gaming.

Also, while I was working for GW a couple of years back, tehre were realtivley few women coming regularly, but those that were were widely accepted and obviously quite skilled at putting people ranting at them in their places (after all, I never had to intervene even once). There was even one instance where one of the girls hooked her BOYFRIEND to gaming! And on the discussion of the supportive or not-so-much significant others, most of the wifes/ girlfriends avoided the store somewhat, but I never had the impression that any one of them was trying to get their husbands/ boyfriends to quit the game.

That being said, up to now I managed to make all my girlfriends paint at least one miniature, and only in one case has this been my idea. Just showing how much fun painting can be made them interested. I have also never hidden my minis, I put them on display rather proudly. Not being a bad painter might also have helped generating interest....

Anyway, as someone said earlier, women also got into online-gaming a lot, and did so without serious effort by the gaming companies, as far as I can tell. The Nintendo Wii would be a good example of something considered "male" (i.e. videogames) being advertised especially to women, but I don´t think "Warhammer 40Fit" would be a big hit now, would it?
Including more female staff on the other hand might be the way to go, and I know of at least two women being blackshirts and managing german GWs, and at least three female Mailorder-Trolls, all dedicated hobbyists, more dedicated than at least half the males I know.

The stuff said about more female minis as long as they are appropriate, fluff-wise, I´d second! There´s so much talk in the fluff about females, Inquisitors, Battle Sisters, the female members of Gaunt´s Ghosts to just name a few. Also, the farseers in DoW are all female, yet there´s not even a single female farseer in the- how many? 5 or so?- farseers produces by GW.

Damn, sorry, thats become a long post....
But before I forget: Kudos to Eldargal for bringing this up (and breaking that jerk´s nose....)! It´s a well neglected, yet very interesting and significant topic, imho!

[MOZZ]

I'd say that one of the biggest problems relating to women trying to break into the war gaming world is the defensiveness of most people involved with the hobby. Think of it this way, I'm a pretty average guy in most respects but I wouldn't dream of telling people about my hobby. I am a professional, I have a degree from a renowned university, I rowed for a competitive club, I'm well-read, but the only thing anyone pays attention to is my hobby. I'm a zit-faced, poorly-groomed, shy, stammering, mother's-basement-dwelling, low life until proven otherwise and it's the same for most every other gamer. Is it any wonder that gamers are defensive?

Now we can say such assumptions shouldn't matter but they do. Our culture is obsessed with appearance, just look at how much time your buddies spend tweaking their profiles in Myspace or Facebook. They aren't changing themselves, they're trying to change how others view them. I try not to let people's opinion bother me but it certainly puts me on the defensive. The LGS I've been to are full of people who want to play (obviously) but also trying to relax in one place where they aren't getting crap for their hobby. Notice how most people get along inside your LGS despite having different hobbies, (Magic, D&D, 40k), different ages, and different backgrounds? It's because you've got one common enemy, everyone outside the LGS.

This phenomenon hurts female gamers because, in most cases, you're another perceived outsider. You're another person that these guys have to justify themselves to. Obviously there is a lot more in the mix than defensiveness but when that particular emotion is added to the typical mix of shyness or insecurity and you have a recipe for a very uncomfortable encounter for both sides.

A couple of women have posted here, I'd bet that most of them could point to this in their own experience.

[Aldramelech]

I think we're all a bit guilty of being a bit "Full on" about the hobby as well. A polite inquiry about the game is not an invitation to go on for 10 hours about how great it is. This would put anybody off regardless of gender.

[Gotthammer]

... generally losing the whole Android's Dungeon vibe (I'm looking at you, scummy, dirty indie store down the street).
3) Tone down the hyper-agressive macho crap. I'm not talking about smacktalk or playing to win; I'm talking about using rape as a metaphor for dominant victory and tossing around racial & sexual ephithets ad infinitum. Again, more a problem with indie stores than the GW corporate ones in my experience.

I think both of these would be a good idea to attract more customers in general. I'm sure there are plenty of people turned off of the game when they here some lame-*** yelling 'I just got raped by Jim's Daemons - it was so gay!'. Doesn't exactly say 'family friendly' or 'fun relaxing time'.

[Aldramelech]

I think this thread has raised some very interesting points not only about the attitudes toward female gamers but also about negative attitudes toward gaming in general. It is clear that the hobby as a whole has an image problem.

What can be done about this I'm not sure, Sites like the infamous "Space Marines-Death Toys" certainly don't help (although it would seem that has been shut down...... shame that!)

I think more needs to be done to encourage younger girls into the hobby, after all we all started at a young age, although in different ways (Airfix, Commando comics, Army men, Action Man/GI Joe, War movies, computer games). Traditionally the things "boys" do.

This will be a tough cycle to break but I believe it is worth the effort, a more diverse gaming community can only be better and stronger.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

I'm one of the rare female gamers too and like all the others that have posted in this thread, I've had more than my fair share of issues all because of my gender when it comes to gaming. Once a guy grabbed my rear when I was leaning over the table trying to move my Razorback, so I had to backhand him in the face so hard that he lost a couple teeth.

Seriously, what's a girl to do in such a situation?

Things like this are why I think everybody needs to have my buddy Scott around. Scott is a massive monster of a guy, and an avid Magic fan and video gamer. He's not much for the socializing, and he doesn't do well with the ladies. While he was at Bridgewater State, he often was asked to be a bouncer for big parties. Over time he befriended some people and got invited around himself. One day he was at a party as a guest and went to the upstairs part of the place and heard a girl in the bathroom. There was a guy in there too, and the girl didn't sound like she was cooperating. So he stayed put and listened a minute. Eventually Scott heard something that sounded like trouble, and without a word, broke in the bathroom door and found some dude trying to force himself on some girl. Wordlessly, my friend Scott beat the guy into a paste before throwing him down the stairs and dragging him from the building. I have no doubt in my mind that if Scott were at your LGS when that butt-groping incident had happened, that guy would have had his skull caved in.

My point with the story is, shame on the whole rest of the group for not villifying, embarrassing, or flat out hitting that guy. To me, they are all as guilty as he is.

I'd say that one of the biggest problems relating to women trying to break into the war gaming world is the defensiveness of most people involved with the hobby. Think of it this way, I'm a pretty average guy in most respects but I wouldn't dream of telling people about my hobby. I am a professional, I have a degree from a renowned university, I rowed for a competitive club, I'm well-read, but the only thing anyone pays attention to is my hobby. I'm a zit-faced, poorly-groomed, shy, stammering, mother's-basement-dwelling, low life until proven otherwise and it's the same for most every other gamer. Is it any wonder that gamers are defensive?

I agree with this wholeheartedly, except that I willingly tell all the world about the game. I think this is a huge part of why the stereotype is propagated so; I am a pretty normal guy, I drive my own car, I worked for the news business, I've had girlfriends aplenty (well not aplenty, but moreso than the average GW fanboy might have I guess). I play in rock bands, I have a lot of friends, I go out on weekends. I am not the mouth-breathing cellar-dweller people think we are. But in honesty I have met a lot of 40k players, and I actually think that very few of them are. I've met people from all walks of life playing warhammer -- buff dudes from the army, football fans, WoW players, morbidly obese fat dudes, little kids, entire families who play and paint together. The idea that the general 40k populace are all lonely uber-geeks with no hope of ever touching a female or moving out of their moms' basement is a very incorrect stereotype, in my experience.

So I wear the badge proudly. Read the books in public. Tell people about my games and how they turn out, the same way a football player might tell a friend about his game even if the friend isn't a football buff. I think this is important, as it normalizes the hobby to outsiders in a way.

Now we can say such assumptions shouldn't matter but they do. Our culture is obsessed with appearance, just look at how much time your buddies spend tweaking their profiles in Myspace or Facebook. They aren't changing themselves, they're trying to change how others view them. I try not to let people's opinion bother me but it certainly puts me on the defensive. The LGS I've been to are full of people who want to play (obviously) but also trying to relax in one place where they aren't getting crap for their hobby. Notice how most people get along inside your LGS despite having different hobbies, (Magic, D&D, 40k), different ages, and different backgrounds? It's because you've got one common enemy, everyone outside the LGS.

Basically, this was the point I was trying to make. Those in the LGS are there because their hobby has been shunned or ridiculed or hamstrung by the outside. Anybody who wears the guise of the things that do that to us is sure to be met with resistance. I am still very, very disappointed by all this talk of bad treatment of women simply because of their gender, though. In almost all of these stories the ladies in this thread have told, I am ashamed of my fellow male spectators for not acting on their behalf. Chivalry aside, it just makes us all look more like the desperate, pathetic introverts/perverts we are seen as.

[Trinity]

From the discussion in [url]http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=346&page=9[/url]

What do you think? Are you a girl? Are there girls in your group? Does your wife play? etc. etc.

My wife loves to play games. Something she has ran into is that if I am not present she is spoken to condesendingly. Always as if she didnt know the rules. Or if she presents an idea she is ignored whether it was a good idea or not. At first I didn't believe it but I sat back and watched and sure enough they definitly treated her differently then her male counter parts. If a guy made the same suggestion that she had made the group would explain why the was considered to bad idea. When my wife made suggestions it was very typically ignored or convieniently looked over.

The only time where I have not seen this behavior has been in groups where the ratio of male to female was a lot closer to 50/50.

What is the answer to this. Not sure. But this is what I have observed first hand.