De 1500

[DrBored]

1. Who uses flamers any more? I've only ever had to deal with Breath of Chaos from Chaos Daemons armies, and Doom Sirens from Chaos Marine armies. Never flamers. If your opponent is using flamers, they don't have melta or plasma guns, and therefore you should be a happy camper, even if your Reavers die.

2. The Heat Lances and Blasters are never worth it, and neither are Arena Champs or any of those upgrades. The real money is in the Cluster Caltrops. You get more attacks at much higher strength, making your Reavers a much higher threat.

The main reason that Heat Lances and Blasters aren't worth it is simple; you have to sit still to fire them (relatively. You have to not turbo-boost) so save the points and add some anti-vehicle to another squad, and do nothing but turbo-boost across the field, even if you have nothing to attack.

[Son_of_Osiris]

Who uses flamers any more?

You see heavy flamers on land speeders sometimes. Obliterators have em. Virtually every chimera has a hull heavy flamer as well as some command squads have 4! Baal predators and LR redeemers have wicked flamers... oh and other dark eldar players will most likely have liquifiers. So units like reavers can't run willy nilly all over the place.

You know, when folks first saw the DE codex, everyone swore the controversial section was the elite, but I'm pretty sure its the FA and HS. Reavers vs. Scourges, Hellions vs. Beasts, and Ravagers vs. Airplanes.

IMO, reavers are a pretty cool choice. I would just go 6 with two heat lances/blasters, maybe a champ for LD 9. I would NEVER take the cluster caltrops... you might as well buy two more reavers for almost the same price. In the DE book, 20 is steep for a random number of attacks... even if they're str 6.

The heat lances or blasters are in the unit because of the obvious mechanization of the game. And the silly thing is, the anti-tank weapons arn't there to necessarily kill tanks, but more to make tanks have to consider the bikers and not tank shock them all over the place. Bullies...

Keep in mind, DE jetbikes are still Eldar jetbikes and benefit from 6" move in the assault phase. So they can shoot their weapons and dodge 6" further away to avoid assualt or jump into cover. With skilled rider USR and their AMAZING speed, there is no reason why reavers can't gain a cover save where ever they go. This includes whether they wish to shoot or not!

Reavers are just another of Phil Kelly's unit choices that are based on opinion. God bless that man for making so many of them in all of his books.

[Dominic]

2. The Heat Lances and Blasters are never worth it, and neither are Arena Champs or any of those upgrades. The real money is in the Cluster Caltrops. You get more attacks at much higher strength, making your Reavers a much higher threat.

The main reason that Heat Lances and Blasters aren't worth it is simple; you have to sit still to fire them (relatively. You have to not turbo-boost) so save the points and add some anti-vehicle to another squad, and do nothing but turbo-boost across the field, even if you have nothing to attack.

Completely agree with what you said.

The heat lance is only there because I had just the right number of points left over and it makes them a threat to armour, I highly doubt that I will ever use a heat lance, as to use it means I lose my 3+ cover, but you never know.

The cluster caltrops are useful as they enable me to threaten pretty much anything on the board when combined with the heat lance, so the reavers should be a nice target to absorb fire for the first turn.

[Son_of_Osiris]

The heat lance is only there because I had just the right number of points left over and it makes them a threat to armour, I highly doubt that I will ever use a heat lance, as to use it means I lose my 3+ cover, but you never know.

You have to agree that reavers are a flimsy unit with or without their 3+ cover save. Any heavy enemy unit that wants to dedicate themselves to destroying the reaver unit will likely succeed. Speed is the reavers only true defence. Now if they manage to kill an enemy unit... FnP, thats another story. lol

The cluster caltrops are useful as they enable me to threaten pretty much anything on the board when combined with the heat lance, so the reavers should be a nice target to absorb fire for the first turn.

I see why folks like the caltrops, but I still think more reavers over better drive by attacks is where the moneys at. 20pts is a strangly expensive option. I think they likely should have been 15. Or 10 and competed in the special weapon options.

[gcsmith]

I prefer Scourges over reavers. They are able to take better wargear. They come with 4+/6++ for same points and decent shooting. 3 shots per person is garunteed 3 shots able to wound any toughness. Far better than random d3 s4 hits.

Sure reavers can turbo boost onto objectives, but they cant deepstike. At least not effectively. Where as scourges can deepstrike with 2 blasters, or splinter cannons. Contest an objective and blast away.

[Son_of_Osiris]

prefer Scourges over reavers. They are able to take better wargear. They come with 4+/6++ for same points and decent shooting. 3 shots per person is garunteed 3 shots able to wound any toughness. Far better than random d3 s4 hits.

Definately understandable. Like I said, Its a real toss up between the two. I can see any given player prefering one over the other.

Though I argue that deepstrike shouldn't really be the dealbreaker between the two units. My favorite part of scourges is those nifty haywire blasters. Those things are a deal at 10pts!

[gcsmith]

Actually you might be on to something.
But its a tossup between haywire and blaster.
Similar range.
However the Haywire can glance easier. So your less likely to be shot back, but Blaster can penetrate easier so more likely to Get KP.

Might Run the haywires myself in 1500 and see.
simply not enough points in 1000 for the scourges sadly after 3 troops in transport and lord and retinue.
Now if only lord can take scourge pack.

[The Archon]

Here is my Dark Eldar list, which is VERY similar to the list you've come up with, but a little larger at 1750 points. You will see differences in the wargear that some of the squads use, and every piece of wargear was selected after much theorycrafting. This list also has great synergy with Duke Sliscus, as every unit uses almost all of the Duke's special abilities and rules.

HQ

Duke Sliscus The Serpent

TROOPS

Kabalite Warriors x 7
Sybarite
Agonizer
Splinter Pistol
Raider
Dark Lance
Night Shield
Flickerfield

Wych Squad of 10
Hydra Gauntlet x2
Hexatrix
Power Weapon
Raider
Dark Lance
Night Shield
Flickerfield

Wych Squad of 10
Hydra Gauntlet x2
Hexatrix
Power Weapon
Raider
Dark Lance
Night Shield
Flickerfield

Wych Squad of 10
Hydra Gauntlet x2
Hexatrix
Power Weapon
Raider
Dark Lance
Night Shield
Flickerfield

FAST ATTACK

Reaver Squad of 9
Cluster Caltrops x 3

Reaver Squad of 9
Cluster Caltrops x 3

HEAVY SUPPORT

Ravager
Dark Lance x 3
Night Shield
Flickerfield

Ravager
Dark Lance x 3
Night Shield
Flickerfield

All of the vehicles can Deep Strike if they have to, thanks to Duke Sliscus, there are 6 units, plus Duke, that benefit from his Combat Drug rolling rule, and he has his Kabalite Warrior unit to benefit from his Splinter weapon rule. There are 10 Dark Lances in the army that can take down enemy armored vehicles, and a ton of ways to take down enemy infantry. I have sat down and tweaked this list several times, and I think that it is the best list that you can make with the units that are available now, and that will be available later this month.

- The Archon

[Son_of_Osiris]

In another thread I was talking about my opposition to full units in raiders. Either way, its an opinion thing.

You have 500pts in reaver squads. I would consider losing some reavers in each squad and finding other investments for those points.

I feel like theres alot of "fat" that could be cut from the list. Does each vehicle need the two expensive upgrades? wych boats usually take the girls close to the enemy and wouldn't really benefit from night shields as much.

Another reality you may face is the fact that reavers will not likely kill the units they run over, and will then likely get assaulted in turn. Reavers pretty much suck in combat. Its just a bad way to lose a 250pt unit.

just my 2 cents.

[DrBored]

In another thread I was talking about my opposition to full units in raiders. Either way, its an opinion thing.

You have 500pts in reaver squads. I would consider losing some reavers in each squad and finding other investments for those points.

I feel like theres alot of "fat" that could be cut from the list. Does each vehicle need the two expensive upgrades? wych boats usually take the girls close to the enemy and wouldn't really benefit from night shields as much.

Another reality you may face is the fact that reavers will not likely kill the units they run over, and will then likely get assaulted in turn. Reavers pretty much suck in combat. Its just a bad way to lose a 250pt unit.

just my 2 cents.

1. You're absolutely correct about the Wych Raiders. They should not have Night Shields. In my opinion, Raiders should always be 70 points. Either have Night Shields on long-range ones like things holding points on your table edge or on Ravagers, or have Flickerfields on Raiders charging forward just to frustrate the enemy.

2. Not a whole lot of fat in the rest of the army. Squads if 6-9 Reavers are ideal, and they can really damage squads that they zoom by, seeing as they auto-hit d3-d6 attacks. Cluster Caltrops are always the way to go, and having more of them means more of those precious s6 attacks. Yeah he could downgrade them, and having two squads of 9 is a bit overkill, so two squads of 6 would indeed be better.

3. If you leave your Reavers in a position to be assaulted when you have 30+ inches of movement to use for turbo-boosting, you are a silly silly man and /want/ your Reavers to be assaulted. Reavers can make great screening and contesting units, zooming across the table to prevent something from assaulting your fragile Troop Warriors, or they can zip over to contest an objective. If they get assaulted, so be it. Better them than a valuable HQ or Troop.