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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimnar42 View Post
    I have been in this hobby for a long long time now and this is not the first time and wont be the last that GW has come down on someone. Personally I don't give a rats about the legal crap not like CHS is any threat is it morally I think GW is way over the line I mean not like they are squeaky clean about pilfering someone else's ideas is it. I hope you at least reach an agreement Jon because I for one want your products available to customize my gw models.
    Morally, I think GW are spot on. As the whole purpose of a business is to make money for its shareholders.

    Look, back in the day, GW were the cottage industry. They fought off Ral partha, TSR, FASA, whoever, and carved a niche. Then the scale of the thing meant they had to not have geeks in charge, and got in true corporate business types. Rules streamlined, target audience got younger.

    Some of the oldies felt left out in the cold. Well unlucky - you want GW fluff, you want the firm to stand on its own 2 feet in a recession, thats what you've got. US gamers have US aspirations - read bill Bryson - you get 87 different types of vanilla ice cream. You want tourneys with prize support. You weren't happy with a plastic rhino and LR back in the day - you got Armorcast. You want little niche third party parts companies, you got 'em. But you can't expect you to have your cake and eat it - GW are a business first and foremost.

    CHS is not a symbiotic relationship with GW like a bird stood picking tics out of rhino's ear. GW get nothing from them. You could argue 'why not make a seer council kit - GW aren't' Well GW are well within their rights not to license CHS to do this. This may be because to do it from GW parts it will bring them in an extra £100 - that is what GW is about. At the end of the day, you, the customer, can vote with your feet.

    I seriously wonder if this was a US giant slogging it to a tiny Brit company, whether or not the attitude would be different here - this isn't some David and Goliath fairy tale, why did CHS not do what Pig iron does and just advertise as generic 28mm? Answer: they went for the quick buck. They may feel they are entitled to the scraps from under GWs table, but they are GW scraps - GW is entitled to dish them out or bin them willy nilly as they see fit.

    I am not a GW nazzy. Most of my glues, paints, milliput etc are not GW. Some of my favourite miniatures are other companies with a bolter stuck on, or GW with a third company weapon. I was hoping to use some CHS parts myself.

    But, this vexes me that people are trying to paint this as some morality tale - simply CHS flew too close to the candle and got their wings burned. The reason CHS weren't giving their product away was because they wanted profit. Not unreasonable either - their designs and materials cost. However this makes them a business, and what GW is doing is business, not good versus evil. After all, GW are entitled to their pound of flesh, particularly when kits like the Seer council quite simply only exist to fit exisitng GW designs.
    I'M RATHER DEFINATELY SURE FEMALE SPACE MARINES DEFINERTLEY DON'T EXIST.

  2. #22

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    After reading all the comments, and the full litigation papers, I just have to say a few things.

    First, it isn't something GW commonly does. They tend to use C&D's, went they want to protect their IP, but know that they are likely stepping beyond their means.
    They are fully within their rights in this case. They aren't trying to frighten people away from discussing their IP; they are attempting to stop another company from exploiting their IP.

    The 'nominal use'/similar parts references. This is not the case here.
    You can put tire/pedals/carrying cases/etc. on brand name objects is because 'tires' 'pedals' etc. are non-copy-righted objects.
    Armourcast, Pigiron and Maximini are all examples of proper 'nominal use' because they just make 28mm heroic scale. They sometimes show examples of it on GW things, but they are made for anything in that scale.
    Chapterhouse didn't do that. You don't make unique, but generalized, pieces. You made IP and image copied works.

    Here an example of a case like yours:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Sport_Guns_GSG-5
    It is not the combat I resent, brother. It is the thirst for glory that gets men cut into ribbons.

  3. #23

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    *
    Last edited by chapterhousestudios; 01-03-2011 at 09:35 PM.

  4. #24

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    You really don't understand your current situation at all, do you?
    You've just proved it with that last statement.

    We ARE comparing apples to apples.

    I was just on your website and you actually have the nerve to call a new release the "chapterhouse studio's Doom of Malantai" (that's what it says when you high-light the image.)

    Your 'space elf' Farseer, looks EXACTLY (to use your own phrase) like a GW Farseer, both a coverted model and images from the Codex.

    I'm personally shocked that you think you can defend your actions (or worse, you try to brush it aside), that you think you are completely and uderly in the right, that GW are out to get you for no reason (that they are completely off the mark); absolutely shocked.
    You have no remorse for this situation, your actions and attitudes prove that (both here and on your own site).
    It is not the combat I resent, brother. It is the thirst for glory that gets men cut into ribbons.

  5. #25

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    I like mixing GW & Non-GW parts. My AdMech marines have West Wind's Wierd War 2 gasmasks on, for example. And Chapterhouse Studios make absolutely beautiful parts, I was very tempted by their Exorcist pads (it's bloody inconvenient that GW doesn't make Exorcist pads!) And the nid bits? Gorgeous. The Pre-Heresy Jump Packs were very tempting as well...

    But it was pretty obvious that what Chapterhouse was doing was very different to what every other company except GW/ForgeWorld was doing. Compare it to http://sciborminiatures.com, for example. Scibor sell "Templar Shoulder Pads" and "Egyptian Shoulder Pads" (generic names), whilst Chapterhouse claimed to be selling "Blood Raven Shoulder Pads" and "Black Templar Shoulder Pads" (specific GW trademarks). That's crossing a line.

    Chapterhouse were not just making iPod covers or watch straps. They were making iPod covers with apples on them and advertising them as Apple iPod covers. Or watch straps with crowns on and advertising them as Rolex watch straps.

    Chapterhouse were basically making pirated goods, and now they're asking for donations to fight a courtcase against the company whose IP they've been ripping off. Lol. Good luck with that. Also, you've surely known that such a courtcase might occur? Look at your post on the 19th February, where you deliberate antagonise GW? Surely you should have either been saving up for this possibility, or taken the route taken by all the other bits manufacturers?
    Last edited by miteyheroes; 12-31-2010 at 04:29 AM.
    http://miteyheroes.blogspot.com/ - My 40k Blog: Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Guard Grots, Conversions, Battle Reports and more.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by chapterhousestudios View Post
    I dont guess it matters if I point out that airsoft gun looks EXACTLY like the HK Submachine gun.

    You are comparing a case of exact external appearances to the current issue.

    We make doors that fit on a Rhino that have a wolf head on it.
    GW makes doors that fit on a Rhino that have a different wolf head on it.

    Compare apples to apples not to oranges.
    Could you make stickers with big-eared green ogres, smiling donkeys and overweight dragons on them, and advertise them as ideal for use with Shrek picture books?
    http://miteyheroes.blogspot.com/ - My 40k Blog: Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Guard Grots, Conversions, Battle Reports and more.

  7. #27

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    IMO GW have an unhealthy monopoly in this area of the hobby and protect it with strong arm bully boy tactics. Look at the hobby as a whole, other manufacturers don't enjoy this kind of advantage, you cant copyright a Sherman tank for example, its a Sherman Tank and anyone can make one (unless your a GW wannabe like Battle Front who seem to think they invented the 2nd World War, Good luck with that).

    The crux of the matter appears to be that unlike everybody else Chapterhouse have been upfront about what their products are for and so are getting punished, how the hell do you justify that? "We're not going to take that person to court because they were sneaky and underhanded enough to call their stuff something else"

    This is not GW's Hobby, they do not own the Hobby. They do own the products they make, and if someone copied them directly and sold them in direct competition them GW would be justified in their action, but that is not whats happened.

    This unhealthy monopoly is NOT good for the hobby, its not good for gamers, its only good for GW shareholders, and many of them are not involved in the hobby. They do not care about the hobby, gamers or choice, they care about money.

    Go over to a Company like Grind House Games website to see how the hobby should really be, Games for Gamers, run by Gamers who say things like "Hey, its your game, no one here is going to tell you how to play with your soldiers"

    F*&%ing A!

    Somewhere along the line GW became the "MAN", and I don't take orders from the "MAN" or their lawyers. This hobby is MY hobby, its yours too and I'll spend my money where I want, not where Kissass, Suckup and Creep, lawyers to the great and good, tell me I can.
    Last edited by Aldramelech; 12-31-2010 at 05:50 AM.
    To a New Yorker like you a hero is some kinda weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers!

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldramelech View Post
    IMO GW have an unhealthy monopoly in this area of the hobby and protect it with strong arm bully boy tactics. Look at the hobby as a whole, other manufacturers don't enjoy this kind of advantage, you cant copyright a Sherman tank for example, its a Sherman Tank and anyone can make one (unless your a GW wannabe like Battle Front who seem to think they invented the 2nd World War, Good luck with that).
    True, but GW invented the Rhino and the Land Raider and so on. Saying GW has an unhealthy monopoly on Rhino doors is like saying Lucasarts has an unhealthy monopoly over Star Wars vehicle parts...
    http://miteyheroes.blogspot.com/ - My 40k Blog: Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Guard Grots, Conversions, Battle Reports and more.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldramelech View Post
    This is not GW's Hobby, they do not own the Hobby.

    This unhealthy monopoly is NOT good for the hobby, its not good for gamers, its only good for GW shareholders, and many of them are not involved in the hobby. They do not care about the hobby, gamers or choice, they care about money.
    What I don't understand is how people can actually talk like this.

    They don't own the hobby; the fact that we talk about both other table-top miniature gaming companies and generic third-party bitz producers proves that.
    Battle-tech, hoards/warmachine, D&D/Starwars minis, Flame of War, Manic, etc; and Pig-iron, Armourcat, Maximini, etc.

    All they own is Warhammer and 40K. They only have a 'monopoly' because we all choose to play that a lot more then we play any of the other games. It's because of us, not because of them.

    They aren't a Walmart, able to underbid, buy-out or strong arm all the mom-and-pop operations in town, until they become the only choice.
    They are the McDonalds. We can go to 'Dan's Burger World' or the 'Eat it Now Grill' but we choose to go to them instead (but sometimes go to other places once in awhile). However, if another burger places opens up, calls themselves 'MacRonalds', their logo is a big yellow M and their mascot is a clown; that place it going to be sued!
    Chapterhouse pulled a 'MacRonalds' and is asking for people that like any kind of burger to bail them out (with the threat that if they lose, then no one can ever buy burgers from anyplace else, ever again!)
    It is not the combat I resent, brother. It is the thirst for glory that gets men cut into ribbons.

  10. #30

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    I disagree strongly. I don't think CH has ever tried to pass themselves off as GW. Their Website makes it quite clear that they are not GW or connected to GW. Anybody that has that impression after looking at the website (the so called complaints that GW have received) is quite frankly an idiot.
    To a New Yorker like you a hero is some kinda weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers!

 

 
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