Ordnance Shots from a Demolisher Cannon - Do they grant cover saves?

[YourMomsBox]

Ordnance Shots from a Demolisher Cannon - Do they grant cover saves?


I understand Ordnance Barrage shots grant cover from where the center of the blast comes from. Template weapons grant no cover saves at all. Ordnance uses the Large Blast Template (see 40K Essentials on Website - 40K Templates).

So since it is an Ordnance shot using the Large Blast template, but not an Ordnance Barrage, is a cover save negated since all models underneath are hit? Or am I missing something, which is completely possible.

Here are the references I could find.

Template pg. 29 "Any models fully or partially under the template are hit...cover saves are ignored when resolving wounds, even by models inside area terrain."

Blast pg. 30 "Once the final position of the blast marker has been determined, take a good look at the blast marker from above - all models whose bases are completely or partially covered by the blast marker are hit."

Barrage pg. 32 "Use the rules for Blast weapons, with the following exceptions...To determine if a unit wounded by a barrage weapon is allowed a cover save, always assume the shot is coming from the centre of the marker, instead of from the firing model. Remember that models in area terrain get their cover save regardless of the direction the shot is coming from."

Template and Blast Weapons pg. 60 "When firing a blast weapon against a vehicle, place the marker with the hole over any part of the vehicle's hull..."


Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions on this matter.

[gwensdad]

It's one of those really really weird definition things. The "template" refers to the thing you use for flamers, etc. The "blast" and "large blast" are not the "template" but are "markers". So you fire the Large Blast Marker (not template) at a target and it gets it's cover saves as normal.

(If that made any sense please let me know, because I think I confused myself typing it, but basically that's how it is)

[Dorsai]

Unless stated in the weapon profile, cover saves are granted to ordnance weapons. For instance, cover saves may be taken from a Manticore blast, but they may not be taken from a Deathstrike. It depends entirely upon the weapon's rules.

[somerandomdude]

Unless stated in the weapon profile, cover saves are granted to ordnance weapons. For instance, cover saves may be taken from a Manticore blast, but they may not be taken from a Deathstrike. It depends entirely upon the weapon's rules.

One thing to note about the Manticore is that, since it is Barrage, you will only receive a cover save if the unit fired upon is actually occupying area terrain.

[Archon Charybdis]

"Template" refers specifically to the teardrop shaped template used by flamers and similar weapons. Blasts and Large Blasts use the normal rules for determining cover, unless otherwise specified in a particular weapon's profile.

[chromedog]

Yes, cover saves can be taken agains Demolisher Ordnance shots.
Cover will be determined by the angle of the firer as usual for any direct shots.

Barrage (and Ordnance Barrage) only base cover from centre of marker.

[YourMomsBox]

So to clarify, if you have LOS, then the Cover Save is negated? If no LOS, then the cover save is granted?

[somerandomdude]

No. If you have LoS, you can shoot your target.

If you have direct LoS and can see less than half of the models completely, then cover is granted. If, when tracing the view from the firer, any part of a (non-MC, non-vehicle) model is covered by something that is not in either unit, that model is considered to have cover. If more than half of the models in the target unit have cover, then that unit gets a cover save.

I'm not sure why a discussion broke out about TLoS as it pertains to being able to fire. People need to realize that TLoS also determines cover, and that's what the original question was about. TLoS means quite simply "Is [this model] obscured from the view of [this model]?" The choices are completely (no shots may be fired), somewhat (shots are fired with a cover save), and no (shots are fired with no cover save).