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  1. #11

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    You cant lead a horse to water Weeb.
    Last edited by chapterhousestudios; 01-07-2011 at 10:59 PM.

  2. #12

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    Im pretty certain thats an old shoulder pad that was re-released for the blood angels release.

    Besides, even if it isn't, the design for the blood drop on the saw blade was theirs. As is the style and imagery of a space marine shoulder pad, as bland as it may be.

    Even if you produced the pad first, it will still be producing a product based upon/directly copied from imagery and design owned by GW. Also, their product would have been in production and design way before the release.

    We were the first to come out with that style shoulder pad on the market, not GW. Does that mean they are copying our alreayd released pad design?
    But you weren't. the shoulder pad has been around since the first plastic space marines. All you did was sculpt their iconography onto the side of their space marine shoulder pad and tried to profit from it. so thats twice in one product you've used both their physical design as well as their imagery.

    by all means try and prove to them otherwise, but i assure you that they will have had that product designed and sculpted way before you, and will no doubt prove so if it ever came up.

    If their is room on the market, (which there is), why did you not start your own game? your own system?

    As to the genestealers bits, its a case of you providing evidence vs their evidence of their design. and considering that GW can design models, sketches, ranges a year or more before their release, i think 3-4 months might not be enough.

  3. #13

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    GW aren't suing them for copying their design, though, they are suing them for trademark and copyright infringement, which are all different things. This is a very convoluted and vague area of the law, it is by no means as simple as people are making it out. So long as CHS have the funds to fight it, it really could go either way. GW do get away with an awful lot with C&Ds, I'm not one to criticise GW unnecessarily but they really do get their way simply by bullying sometimes.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  4. #14

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    addamsfamily36: My country right or wrong.
    To a New Yorker like you a hero is some kinda weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers!

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
    GW aren't suing them for copying their design, though, they are suing them for trademark and copyright infringement, which are all different things. This is a very convoluted and vague area of the law, it is by no means as simple as people are making it out. So long as CHS have the funds to fight it, it really could go either way. GW do get away with an awful lot with C&Ds, I'm not one to criticise GW unnecessarily but they really do get their way simply by bullying sometimes.
    This has been one of the main points I'm trying to make. However, even though this case could go either way, as can any case that goes before a jury, Games-Workshop is the plaintiff and the plaintiff bears the burden of proof in this instance. Games-Workshop must prove that Chapterhouse infringed its trademarks and copyrights and if the fraud claim makes it through to a jury, Games-Workshop must prove that by the standard of clear and convincing evidence, which is much more stringent than the standard of a preponderance of evidence.

    Given the somewhat complicated nature of copyright laws, Games-Workshop would have a difficult time proving copyright infringement even if it was claiming tested and clearly defensible copyrights. Games-Workshop is not attempting to enforce tested and clearly defensible copyrights in this case. Most attorneys that I know that are proficient in the area of trademark infringement and intellectual property interpret Games-Workshop's case to be very weak and based on copyrights that are very difficult to enforce. These copyrights are difficult to enforce because they have not been tested and they are largely composed of material that is readily available in the public domain. Games-Workshop is not allowed to claim exclusive rights to something that is in the public domain and the company is attempting to do so by filing this lawsuit with no real intention to pursue it.

    This aggressive, bullying behavior on the part of Games-Workshop allows it to give the impression that its claimed intellectual property is much broader than it really is. This is why Games-Workshop files suits like the Chapterhouse case. Its intention is to file a suit against a company that it does not believe is equipped to respond to the complaint (or the threat of a complaint in the case of a cease and desist order)that claims overly broad and indefensible copyrights. This allows Games-Workshop to accomplish two related goals. First, the company that received the cease and desist order or the complaint is forced to abide by what Games-Workshop claims as its intellectual property simply because it is not in a position to afford a defense. Second, this allows Games-Workshop to give the impression that the allegedly infringing party acquiesced because the claimed intellectual property is tested and enforceable.

    Through this behavior Games-Workshop is attempting to take ownership of as much of the wargaming hobby and industry as possible. Again, it is no mistake that the Chapterhouse complaint claims the word "bits" as a Games-Workshop copyright. But the reality is that Games-Workshop doesn't own something just because it says it does. It gains de facto ownership if individuals in the hobby and wargaming industry act as though Games-Workshop owns what it claims to own. The unfortunate reality is that this happens on a daily basis. The fact that we are having this discussion is indicative of the stranglehold Games-Workshop has placed around the hobby.

    I mostly play Imperial Guard, so I have never been a direct customer of Chapterhouse Studios, but I applaud the company for investigating what intellectual property Games-Workshop is able to legitimately enforce and for taking all of the necessary steps to properly recognize Games-Workshop's intellectual property and avoid infringement. Having done that, Chapterhouse Studios produces artwork and products that it is legitimately able to produce and sell. This, of course, is far more than Games-Workshop wants people in this hobby and industry to believe they are legitimately capable of doing. This is the driving force behind Games-Workshop's Chapterhouse complaint and it is part of Games-Workshop's overall litigation strategy: trick people into believing that we own more than we really do by picking on those that cannot protect themselves.

    It is for this reason that the defense of Chapterhouse Studios is in the interest of everyone that participates in the wargaming hobby and industry.

  6. #16

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    addamsfamily36: My country right or wrong.
    Pointless comment seeing as i ridiculed both the UK and the U.S


    My argument is still this:

    http://chapterhousestudios.com/websh...category_id=25

    A vast majority of these have been made by GW
    I Have an old white dwarf from 10-15 years back that has them in it.

    They are pretty much identical

    copyrighted by GW

    Copied and manufactured by CHS who are making a profit on a design/aesthetic they did not create.

    That to me is throwing morals out the window.

    call GW a bully all you want, i call CHS a thief.

    And thats all i have to say on the matter.

  7. #17

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    I meant in the context that no matter what anyone said, no matter what GW did, no matter how stupid this company's policy's become, you'll continue to stick up for them.

    News flash: If they don't care about us complaining, they sure as hell don't care about your support either.
    To a New Yorker like you a hero is some kinda weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers!

  8. #18

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    I meant in the context that no matter what anyone said, no matter what GW did, no matter how stupid this company's policy's become, you'll continue to stick up for them.

    News flash: If they don't care about us complaining, they sure as hell don't care about your support either.
    But what are you complaining about?

    Put aside the Chapter house studios, what aspect of GW has treated you poorly?

    Personally, My store is great. Good friends, good manager who i socialise with in store and out of the store.

    When i had a product with a broken piece i called up GW HQ and they sent me a replacement.

    they put on an event each year (gamesday) that often costs them more money to run than they make back from the individual event.

    I can ask for advice whenever i want it etc etc.

    Prices have gone up, thats the only downside over the past years apart from the odd idiotic staff member who usually doesn't last long. But prices have gone up on everything. As a student, when i started my degree i could do my weekly food shop for less that £20. Im ending my degree and its now difficult to keep it under £30.

    Out of the shops i buy from, I get a hell of a lot more back from GW. They don;t have to give you anything back. Most companies do treat you as a cash figure. some GW managers do too, but thats not an entire company thats a bad employment choice (which happens in every buisness). I can go hang out at my local GW for several hours. I get a gaming night where our one man store employee stays open till 10pm. Do i pay anything for it? Only what is included in the price of a product i am already willing to buy, so for me these services are effectively free.

    so on a customer to company basis, i would rate GW higher than a a lot of other retailers.

    Any Legal action they take is within their own rights as a business. They have competitors like any other company. They stamp down on the ones thats are in breach of their IP, which personally i would do too if it was my IP.

    I'm studying to be a graphic designer. We constantly have to reference and cross examine our work to ensure that there is no direct copyright theft or plagiarism etc etc. If i produced a design or a piece of work and a year later found out someone had taken it and blatantly profited from it i would be hacked off as well. A student a couple of years before i started copied a piece and got into a world of trouble.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by chapterhousestudios View Post
    You cant lead a horse to water Weeb.
    Actually, you CAN lead a horse to water.
    You just can't make it drink...


    As to the original post; I think there are a lot of different messages/methods/reasons in the ways it's possible to act, and they shouldn't be all lumped together (which is the feeling I'm getting).

    IF you're against GW's actions, a proper letter would be best. They aren't going to notice a single (or even group) departures. Even if they do, they won't know why. You leaving over their legal stances could just push them to make cheaper/better mini's and/or better rules/art/fluff etc and drive them all the more to defend their now improved and costly IP.

    If you want to support other good/strong/young companies (and quit GW); you should do it for those seperate companies merits. They should be a success based on their own hard work/good product. You shouldn't support someone else, simply in a petty pointless vindictive matter to 'be against GW'; you should simply act like an adult. (you want to eat icecream because it tastes good; it'd be odd to stuff your face with the stuff because 'mommy hates fat people' and you're going to rub her face in it)

    If it is something in between (spend some money on GW, but save a little for other companies)... well, I don't understand the point of even saying that out loud. You're not "stickin' it to tha Man!' it won't cause any real affects. You're just basically doing what pretty much every person in this hobby already does.
    It is not the combat I resent, brother. It is the thirst for glory that gets men cut into ribbons.

  10. #20
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    Mr Paladin seems quite reasonable.

    And I think he's right.
    I'M RATHER DEFINATELY SURE FEMALE SPACE MARINES DEFINERTLEY DON'T EXIST.

 

 
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