Gender opinion research...

[Necron2.0]

But thats the thing, we know beyond all doubt that the Guard do recruit females, and there are indeed all-female regiments. Yet the only female guard are a couple of very old, very crude Catachans and a limited edition Commissarette who looks like a whore.

Well then, yes. That's something GW should address. My comments were based on what could be true for a repressive regime, but if the background information has already made it explicit, then this is a deficiency. I also tend to think of the I-guard like the Spartans. In Spartan society, men fought, women had children for the state - end of discussion. There were only two ways for a Spartan to be buried with honors. For a man, he had to die in battle. For a woman, she had to die in child birth. That was it.

The idea that females are hard to sculpt is bunk because I've been doing it for years, and professionals have been doing it for decades. GW just needs to get their act together.

Wyches are not all female either, hence the 4 male torsos in each box.

As I said, not in MY army. Wyches are not Wörlocks. I've actually resculpted some of those torsos back into female (easy to do considering Elves ... erm, Eldar ... are near androgynous anyway ).

As for Banshees, the fluff used to make reference to male Banshees. So quite wrong there too.

And again, not in my army ... if I played Craftworlders. Traditionally, bean sídhe are by definition female, and I don't see a need to change that here. In this case I'd go against the fluff, because the fluff is questionable ... for me at least.

[Grailkeeper]

Bean Sídhe is actually the Irish for Female Fairy/ (mystical spirit). Bean- woman, Fear- Man. Firbolg (literally bellymen) is another type of monster that is used in some role playing that is an example of this.

Male, Irish, Straight, playing since just after tau came out

I like pretty much everything except Tau- dull and eldar- never liked elves in any form, and most of the eldar players I know are tw@s. I particularly like marines in the normal 40k environment, and play escher in necromunda- my own little favourite corner of the 40k universe.

One thing I never understood was why people would want female marines, can anyone give me the reasons why? (other than the GW explanation is medically incorrect).

One Issue that was raised before was Malton Necromancer was Homosexuality in the 40k Universe. Theres been some slight mention of it in the Cain books but none other. To my mind all marines are chemically castrated eunuchs, but with definite gay undertones. I wonder what its like to be gay in the 41st millenium, would it be embraced to strengthen the military sparta style? I somehow doubt the imperium is the kind of place that will embrace diversity.

[eldargal]

Well, thats actually a gross, gross simplification of Spartan culture, and also remember than the Spartan warrior class dwindled due to institutionalised homosexuality. Not the greatest model for fighting force to be honest, much mythologising and nonsense written about the Spartans. Spartan women were also trained to fight and expected to protect their property in the advent of invasion. One could argue that they were the Spartans Imperial Guard while the men were its Space Marines. Perhaps I'll try and work it into my doctoral thesis, I'll ask my supervisor next time I see him.
Well fair enough, my Wyches are all female too, though I'm tempted to have a few boys in such to entertain the girls. The Banshees are all girls in my Craftworld army, and are going to stay that way, but the fluff does point to male Banshees.

Well then, yes. That's something GW should address. My comments were based on what could be true for a repressive regime, but if the background information has already made it explicit, then this is a deficiency. I also tend to think of the I-guard like the Spartans. In Spartan society, men fought, women had children for the state - end of discussion. There were only two ways for a Spartan to be buried with honors. For a man, he had to die in battle. For a woman, she had to die in child birth. That was it.

The idea that females are hard to sculpt is bunk because I've been doing it for years, and professionals have been doing it for decades. GW just needs to get their act together.



As I said, not in MY army. Wyches are not Wörlocks. I've actually resculpted some of those torsos back into female (easy to do considering Elves ... erm, Eldar ... are near androgynous anyway ).



And again, not in my army ... if I played Craftworlders. Traditionally, bean sídhe are by definition female, and I don't see a need to change that here. In this case I'd go against the fluff, because the fluff is questionable ... for me at least.

Regarding homosexuality, there has been some speculation that one of the Dark Angels dark secrets is homosexuality, due to the similarities between the primarch and a homosexual English poet, Lionel Johnson. He wrote a poem 'the Dark Angel'. I could see the homosexuality working for a bunch of 'celibate' space monks that are divorced from the population. Insitutionalised buggery didn't work out so well for the Spartans, who developed a cultural distaste for women resulting in a dwindling warrior class. Its all quite amusing when you think of the modern stereotype of homosexuals as being effeminate (which is nonsense), to think of these big, tough Spartans shying away from women.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Imperium has moved beyond our modern obsession with sexuality. I consider the lack of a SoB vow of celibacy as cirumstantial evidence of this. Cannon fodder is cannon fodder, what it does with its penis is irrelevent, and if it gets pregnant thats more cannon fodder.

[Grailkeeper]

Perhaps more like the Theban Band then.

I'd forgotten that about the Dark angels,

*may be too controversial even for the Obliette*
Another possible issue you might look into is abortion and contraception. Many dictatorial regimes ban abortion on the basis that a high birthrate will allow for a bigger army in 20 years or so. This was in part the reason why Mussolini banned it (also to curry favour with the church) The ****s banned abortion (except for those ehty didn't like where it was often mandatory) and introduced motherhood medals for mothers who gave birth to certain high numbers of children- for example 8 kids resulted in a gold mothers cross.

[Necron2.0]

Apologies everyone. This is totally an aside. I beg your indulgence.

Well, thats actually a gross, gross simplification of Spartan culture.

Well yes, of course. No culture can be summed up in three or four sentences.

Insitutionalised buggery didn't work out so well for the Spartans, who developed a cultural distaste for women resulting in a dwindling warrior class.

Interesting. I wonder if this is one of those things that historians have multiple divergent opinions on. I've not studied history academically - only as a layman - but accounts I've read attributed the decline of Sparta to military over extension and inflexible military doctrine. Basically, the idea was the Spartans went to war too often, they fought the exact same way every time, and their enemies adapted and developed new strategies that the Spartan rigidity could not fathom. They've always been an example to me of what you get if you prosecute war to the dictates of a rigidly dogmatic codex.

I also hesitate to call what the Greeks practiced homosexuality, only in as much as I think those terms (homosexuality and heterosexuality) describing preferences. As I understand it, the ancient Greeks didn't have preferences. They swang EVERYWAY - gender, species ... didn't care.

[Nosmo75]

Kroot Mercs: My first army. Fun fluff, fun rules, lots of variety and interesting models. I wish GW would bring Kroot Mercs back, even if it was just a short White Dwarf army list.

[url]http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=3400020[/url]

Kroot Mercenaries are sixth from the bottom of the list. I know it's not the same as a regular 40K release, but it's something. =)

[eldargal]

Well, I have studied it academically, and while it is certainly true that rigidity in combat doctrine led to their defeat against Thebes at the Battle of Iforgetwhere, the numbers of the Spartan warrior class had steadily declined since the end of the war with Athens to the point they could no longer recover manpower from a serious defeat nor control the Helots.

Well, the Spartans certainly had a preference for chaps. I mean even on their wedding night they had to shave the bride and stuff her in mens clothes before the chap could perform.

Apologies everyone. This is totally an aside. I beg your indulgence.

Well yes, of course. No culture can be summed up in three or four sentences.

Interesting. I wonder if this is one of those things that historians have multiple divergent opinions on. I've not studied history academically - only as a layman - but accounts I've read attributed the decline of Sparta to military over extension and inflexible military doctrine. Basically, the idea was the Spartans went to war too often, they fought the exact same way every time, and their enemies adapted and developed new strategies that the Spartan rigidity could not fathom. They've always been an example to me of what you get if you prosecute war to the dictates of a rigidly dogmatic codex.

I also hesitate to call what the Greeks practiced homosexuality, only in as much as I think those terms (homosexuality and heterosexuality) describing preferences. As I understand it, the ancient Greeks didn't have preferences. They swang EVERYWAY - gender, species ... didn't care.

[Grailkeeper]

I've 4 years ancient greek + two years classical studies. (altough only at secondary school level, and my ancient greek teacher died about halfway through the course) I also did Law and history for one year at university before switching to pure law.

[Necron2.0]

Sorry again, all. Last OT comment from me - promise (don't want anyone going all Warseer moderator d**chebag on me).

For myself, I'm a total techno-goob - Dual major in computer science and electrical engineering, with a dual minor in mathematics and art appreciation (i.e.: reformed career student). Oh, and I also had a masters in public inebriation (Thesis: "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!")

Well, the Spartans certainly had a preference for chaps. I mean even on their wedding night they had to shave the bride and stuff her in mens clothes before the chap could perform.

Oh that wasn't gay. Naw. That was them having a fetish. It's like when guys like for their girlfriends to dress up in their clothing and ... Ok, I'm totally stretching there. Yes, I remember reading that and going "Uh-huh. Yeeeaaaaahhhh."

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I'm Female (i mean im male to female trans, but that doesnt make me less of a woman)

I would love to play armies with women in them, hell I think the lack of female pieces is one of the things that turns me off of the imperium of man armies. I think if the sisters were to be updated and brought out some new plastic models i would be all over that.


as for armies, i am only working on the one now because i am just starting.

Tyranid- I love how my tyranid are turning out actually, and tactics for tyranid are fun. really overall its my favorite army, and im having a ton of fun painting them.

As for opinions on the others:

Imperium of Man- I just blanket them all in together, because the style and look just dont interest me. I mean the sisters look like a lot of fun, but with the all metal army im really not going to touch them anytime soon. If they get updated I am all for it though.

Necron- I find them very interesting, they look like fun, and i had played necron back when i was playing dawn of war. so might play them some day.

Tau- this is an army i definitely want to play, they look like a lot of fun, and i love their models, they look so sharp.

Orks- they are cool, and there is a lot of creativity you can exercise with them for your models, but they just dont interest me to be honest.

CSM- same reasons i dont like space marines, though they are far more cool than SM to me.

Daemons- Eh, not a fan, dont know why

Eldar- I would play them, maybe, we'll see, i do love their models though, lots of fun

Dark Eldar- They have lots of female models, which I am all for, and they are a neat army, the hellions for example i love the look of. It is an army I would definitely try.


So there are my two cents