GW v Chapterhouse Lawsuit Update

[Duke]

Reminder! This thread is not about gender or anything having to do with it, all posts that are related to that will be deleted by the inquisition. Stay on topic.

[weeble1000]

Winston and Strawn is a powerhouse firm. Congratulations on getting pro-bono representation from them. If Games-Workshop wanted a fight, they sure as hell have one now.

I'd also like to point out that large firms like this don't take pro-bono cases on a whim. The fact that they are willing to represent Chapterhouse Studios for free is a clear indication that they believe in the principle of the case and that it is winnable. A firm like this doesn't take a case intending to lose.

Taking a pro-bono case is a very public statement about what values your firm supports. Not only is Winston and Strawn saying that they believe Chapterhouse Studios deserves a defense, but also that they believe Chapterhouse Studios is in the right. Coming from a very large, very successful firm like Winston and Strawn, especially considering the talent, skill, and experience of their intellectual property attorneys, this endorsement speaks volumes about the case.

This lawsuit has just risen from an unsightly blip on the wargaming radar to a major event with potentially far-reaching consequences. Games-Workshop now faces the very real possibility of having to litigate this case. There is now no limitation on the ability of Chapterhouse Studios to take this case into a courtroom. Winston and Strawn has the resources to take this case as far as it needs to go to achieve a favorable resolution for its client.

If Games-Workshop refuses to settle out of court, the wargaming industry will have clear rulings about the boundaries of Games-Workshop's intellectual property.

If Games-Workshop negotiates a settlement, then Chapterhouse Studios will have established a successful method for handling a Games-Workshop lawsuit.

In either case the result is clear: Games-Workshop can no longer dictate the terms of its intellectual property with impunity.

It doesn't matter which party you agree with in this case. No matter how it comes out, even if Games-Workshop wins in open court, Games-Workshop's legal department will have to alter its position with regard to the wargaming industry.

[Drew da Destroya]

Getting their case represented Pro Bono is a really interesting development. It definitely makes their side of things look a bit sunnier.

I'm interested in seeing where this goes. Weeble's got an excellent point, this case will easily determine the future of 3rd party miniature creators.

[Duke]

You guys might all want to head down to the "Corporate Discussion" forum... all of this has been argued already.

This thread was has already been moved to the "wargames corporate discussion,"

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Defenestratus, you took the moral high ground against someone conserning downloading the Ultramarines movie and all but chastised them for it, yet here you are saying its all right to copy GW bits. Make up your mind.It's either ok or your a hypocrit.
Copying, downloading and making your own versions that distinctly are from another company and not paying for it is pretty much stealing. Do you intend to pay GW for not buying there products and making your copied version of the Storm Shield??

I'm waiting to see how this turns out, and i'm sure that many other small companies who make alternate parts will be too. GW can't afford to lose this battle as if they do, they won't have any claus to go after anyone who makes parts they may/may not go on their GW miniatures.

For ChapterHouse, i wish them luck, and hope they keep on there good work.

[Mauglum.]

Hi all.
I dont think the outcome of this legal battle will do anything but clarify the sitiuation on trademarks and thier fair use.

Many companies make product that can be used in conjunction with other companies products.
And they play it safe and have no problems with law suits or other legal threats...

I assume it is Chapterhouse studios use of 'GW trademarks' to 'advertise' Chapterhouse Studios product, that has caused GW to flex its legal departments muscles.

In UK law a trademark is automaticaly registered to any company simply by using it.
As soon as GW printed the name of a specific minature in ANY of its publications , it became a tradmark of GW.

However, in the US and other contries, a trademark has to be registered for it to be legaly owned by the company.

Thefore if GW has NOT registered any of its trademarks in the US , then Chapterhouse Studios could feel they are legaly able to use these particualr trademarks.

I personaly feel GW has thrown the book as Chapterhouse Studios and listed many things that are not strictly persuable in law.(Strong arm scare tactics.)
However, some issues with improper use of tradmarks are likely to be contested strongly by GW.
And as Chapterhouse Studios HAS changed the terms used on thier web site, this could be seen as admission of 'improper use of tradmarks.'(A bit too free and loose with trademark useage.)

I belive this matter will be resolved out of court, if all parties are to save face.

I fail to see what benifits a long and expencive legal battle would achive , apart from exposing beligerance and ignorance in varing amounts from both parties.


TTFN

[addamsfamily36]

Copying, downloading and making your own versions that distinctly are from another company and not paying for it is pretty much stealing. Do you intend to pay GW for not buying there products and making your copied version of the Storm Shield??

I would like to point out, that Gamesworkshop have actually encouraged the personal use of copied pieces. It was either a white dwarf article or a web article (pretty sure it was white dwarf though, sorry i can't quote the exact issue) that demonstrated using green stuff to make press moulds. In the example, they copy a dark angel symbol i believe, and then show it being used on some conversions etc.

[weeble1000]

Mauglum,

You've raised a point about the lawsuit that's come up a lot. I'll address it again briefly.

Trademarks and copyrights are two different kinds of intellectual property. Games Workshop is alleging both trademark infringement and copyright infringement. Games Workshop has numerous registered trademarks in the US, such as "Warhammer" "Warhammer 40,000" and "Space Marine."

Whether or not Games Workshop was motivated to sue Chapterhouse Studios because of trademark issues, the allegations are entirely separate. For example, Games Workshop could have only made an allegation of trademark infringement (I'm bundling things like unfair use, confusion, and dilution together under "trademark infringement" because all of those allegations are related to the same usage of the marks and the arguments are therefore intimately related).

Chapterhouse's defenses against trademark infringement are for the most part very clear and backed up by long-standing precedent. It is reasonable to assume that the trademark infringement claims won't go anywhere.

The copyright infringement claims are what make this case interesting and significant for a lot of different reasons. Trademark issues are usually pretty cut and dry, at least compared to things like copyrights and trade dress. I registered this word, you used the word, and we're arguing about whether or not that use was fair/caused damage.

In contrast, claims of copyright infringement can be very muddled and volatile. Copyrights aren't registered, they're claimed. This means the boundary of what you own hasn't been predetermined by an entity that is presumed to be correct, all things being equal. A patent, for example, is a piece of intellectual property that's defined by the written claims in the patent and described by the specification. US patents are granted by the patent and trademark office, just like trademarks. So when you go to court, you get to say that the PTO already defined what you own. Now, the judge/jury can overrule the PTO. This is an intended function of the court, because otherwise folks would be at the mercy of the PTO with no recourse but to the PTO.

By and large, copyrights don't work like that. On top of this, Games Workshop is claiming many copyrights and very broad copyrights. like all intellectual property, copyrights constitute a legally-sanctioned monopoly. So the broader a copyright is, the more you can prevent others from doing without your consent. This means that because Games Workshop's claimed copyrights are very broad, the interpretation of them could have a significant impact well beyond the immediate scope of the lawsuit. Additionally, the type of copyright infringement Games Workshop is claiming is in some sense sort of new. Again, this means that the way that the claims are interpreted could have implications for other copyright or trade dress lawsuits in the future.

These and other factors make Games Workshop's case rather volatile. It is well beyond a sure thing and it's hard to say for certain how things would fall out in open court. It would be likely that neither party would come out unscathed, but Games Workshop has everything to lose here. Now that Chapterhouse Studios has has excellent pro-bono counsel, it has a lot of room to take risks and much less to lose than Games Workshop.

[weeble1000]

I want to put up a little analysis of the position that Chapterhouse Studios is in now that it has pro-bono counsel from Winston and Strawn.


Chapterhouse Studios is fighting to protect the integrity of its business, but that's much more secure now that the pressure of legal fees is gone. You won't see monetary relief awarded as a result of this case, so Chapterhouse is now financially secure; it won't be run out of business.

A conservative estimate of the outcome would have both parties wind up a little bloody. Chapterhouse would take that as the inability to produce a few of its products. Games Workshop would take that as limitations to its claimed intellectual property. Because Games Workshop has put basically all of its intellectual property related to Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 on the table, all of it is potentially at risk. Any part of it that is narrowed, or even eliminated, would be a severe blow to the company, or at least Games Workshop would feel that it was a severe blow. This effectively gives Chapterhouse all of the cards in settlement negotiations (and experienced, no nonsense attorneys to negotiate it).

You could say that the tables have been turned now that Winston and Strawn is representing Chapterhouse Studios. All of this is the direct result of Games Workshop's copyright infringement claims. Games Workshop stuck its neck out a little too far because it didn't for the world think that Chapterhouse would be able to put up a legitimate fight. Now that Chapterhouse is able to put upl fight, the possibility of a court date is very, very real.

Games Workshop doesn't want to be in court, that's no secret. The premise of the lawsuit was that Chapterhouse didn't want to be in court either, so they could both settle out of court, right? Well the threat of actually stepping back from the table and saying, "screw it, I'll see you in the courtroom," was previously in the hands of Games Workshop, because Chapterhouse couldn't afford to be in court and keep the business afloat. Now Chapterhouse is wielding that threat. This is because Chapterhosue Studios is no longer afraid of court. Winston and Strawn would love to be there and money is not an issue for them. They aren't looking to keep fees down or settle this thing quickly.

This puts Games Workshop in a lose/lose situation born out of its own hubris. It has two options. First, it can go to court, pay Foley and Lardner millions of dollars, and maybe lose control over its intellectual property. Second, it could give Chapterhouse Studios a favorable settlement, but that would necessarily undermine Games Workshop's legal position. Its legal position would go from we-sue-you-and-you-go-out-of-business to we-sue-you-and-you-get-a-free-licence-to-make-Warhammer-models.

Games Workshop's lawyers must now try to find a way to make Chapterhouse Studios happy while minimizing damage to their client. I am reminded of a wonderful Danny DeVito quote from Other Peoples' Money: "Lawyers are like nuclear warheads. They have theirs, so I have mine. Once you use them they f--- everything up!" Chapterhouse Studios just weaponized its plutonium, so Games Workshop better grab that red phone real quick. Games Workshop started this thing and it needs to man up, treat Chapterhouse with some respect, and find an amiable way to resolve the conflict.

[Denzark]

Weeb

I like the way you've used the assumptive close, that GW are in a lose/lose situation.

I can see absolutely no reason why a multi-million pound profit making company, listed and floated on the LSE, would resort to what you are describing - ie a massive gamble.

Especially not a gamble where they may lose or compromise the integrity of one of their biggest assets - the thing that keeps us coming back even with price raises and poor service - the IP/fluff.

Even less logical to my mind is that, if they were bluffing, when the bluff was called, ie engaging pro bono wunderkinds, that GW would continue - if the cards in your hand ain't worth jack no amount of chip bullying will win you the hand when your bluff is called.

Again going on logic I therefore follow through that GW think they have an option 3 - they can win, and piledrive CHS into the ground for everything they have stated in the case.

Anyway, now CHS is so confident, I believe there was a little matter of credit notes for people who contributed to the defence fund - a pro bono lawyer, combined with the fact that CHS are so sure they will win, means he can carry through this promise as he clearly doesn't need the money.