Orks and Multiple attack squigs.....?

[obs0l3te]

Was reading the rules for my orks and noticed something...after a friendly debate with a friend of mine.

WarBoss

Box reads....

May Take any of the following:
-Warbike......?Points
-Ammo Runt......?points
-Attack Squig....?points

I know you can't do it, but WHERE does it say I cannot take Multiple attack squigs for +1 attack?
Where does it say I can't take two warbikes for +2 toughness.

It says "any of the following."

If you read the rest of the book it has sections like this with Bosspoles, weapons and such. It even reads in the Big Mek section May take up to three Grot oilers (specifying only three)

After some research we noticed the rule of 10 meaning you cannot make a stat above 10 and can't take more than 6 attack squigs.

Fact of the matter is I know you can't take more than one... but i'm having issues proving that you can't take more than one.... I know this is a silly small debate... but we would like some closer.

little help? Need page references and solid material.

Need facts only!

[Tynskel]

try proving that you *can* take more than one, rather than *can't*.

You'll find that the language is set up around the 'singular' throughout all of the books, and in any instance where multiples are allowed, the book (this is for any 40k book) explicitly states so.

[obs0l3te]

Well...

It doesn't have any singular language in the sections.

The other Codex's (Before and after this book) either have a paragraph that says only one, no multiples, or says take one of the following.

this book simply says... Any of the following and doesn't say "An" or "one" its listed just like I wrote it.

And no where in the book does it say can only take one of these, and cannot duplicate wargear.

Black Templars says may only take one of the following in the wargear section. Blood Angels list says "Replaces (insert weapon here) with (insert new weapon here)"

Space Marines say may only take one.

The closest thing I can find is like frost blades the +1 STR doesn't stack.

Like I said the whole thing is silly. But I need a lil' help with this one... Any one with a brain knows you can only ride one bike.. but these... ARE Orks and are Prone to do stupid and crazy things like riding two bikes.... but again.. seriously.. ?

[blackarmchair]

Can you take more than one warbike?

Be reasonable. Ask yourself truly do you really think GW intended for an Ork Warboss to have unlimited attacks? By the maxim you establish here the core rulebook never says I can't spit on your models so I must be allowed to do so in tournaments.

Just be reasonable. It most likely doesn't say anywhere explicitly that you can't the expectation is you'll use common sense.

[Culven]

Another way to look at the issue is that for X points the Warboss has a Warbike/Attack Squiq/Ammo Runt. Then, when we try to determine the model's bonus, we only check whether the model has that particular upgrade, but not how many it may have. So, while one could argue that they can select an option multiple times, it won't make a difference since we are only concerned about whether the model has that option.

[obs0l3te]

trust me i'd like to use common sense and reason with the person i'm having a debate with... but it doesn't work. Have to have Facts.

this is an email I sent him for against...

Codex Orks is a 4th Edition book, in 4th edition the BRB said you could NOT take similar wargear items. Since this isn't 4th Edition... that kinda doesn't count really... so it now falls under RAI not RAW. (If you have your 4th edition book I think its under the wear gear/weapons section)

In Codex Black Templars (The last of the 3rd edition books and my codex Space Wolves) It states

"Options A commander....black Templars armory." Page 31.
goto page 26 the armory it says at the top100 points of wargear limit, and no model can pick the same item twice... but again..3rd edition. so RAI vs. RAW.

Codex Space Marines 5th Edition page 131. Chapter master all wording is A power Fist, replaces weapon, may take. If you read... on.. May take - Digital weapon (meaning multiple) if you check the wargear section it says one dice and only one in the assult phase.. 5th edition clears up the rules via codex that while yes you can take multiple digital weapons, its not worth it because the entry says ONE. But this is CSM not C:O.

Codex Space Wolves states that you cannot stack the +1 STR for a frost weapon, if you buy two frost weapons. Again 5th Edition Codex that says, you cannot stack + stat weapons.

We can see on page 7 how items do stack though. +1 Str item and a double str item is only str 9 not 10 on a space marine.

If we read other sections in the ork book ... for instance... the section you are reading and the way you read it would imply that an ORK can be mounted on TWO warbikes for +2 toughness. You can also take TWO waahg banners in a unit for +1WS (I think it is) for a total of +2 (or more).

So the way you think... you could have a Warboss on 5 Bikes (Why not its a freak'n ork) for a modified t10. then 6 attack squigs for 10 attacks. etc.etc....

ALL of the other entries state (May take any of the following) which mean may take any combo of the following, not MULTIPLE of the following. And all of the new books do not allow this type of stat stacking.

all of the older rule books and newer do not allow for this type of stat stacking. I think at this point its mainly a little common sense.

If we take a new player, which you are not, I could understand your point of view. but fact is, you are not a new player, and should know better man.

its like multi master crafting a weapon, you can only do it once, even though it doesn't say you cant. Its like taking Multiple melta bombs, you only get one attack, even though you can buy it more than once. You can buy multi lightning claws, but face it, you won't get any benefit...just a points sink.
"

sound like a good counter? or any thing have something to add? I'd like to say this is a great guy to play against.... and he never gets foul with rules and such... this is just something we want to lay to rest. And on a side note his warboss has died many times to my Rune Priest JotWW, TwCLord, and just a bloodclaw unit with Lord and Wolf Priest. So its really no big deal to be honest...

[Sam]

Who are you talking to? No one is arguing that you can take multiple piece of the same wargear and have it stack infinitely the way you describe.

As to the original question: As Tynskel is fond of pointing out, 40k (and most other games) uses a permissive rule system. The rules tell you what you CAN do. If the is nothing saying you CAN do something (such as take multiple attack squigs) then you cannot do it.

[Mr.Pickelz]

you could always point to the model with an Attack Squig on it, and reasonably say there is no way an Ork (even a warboss) could hold/control multiple squigs. Also if that's the case, then my 30man(ork?) ork squad is LD 30.

[EnglishInquisition]

The only place I can see "in fact" that only one attack squig can be taken is page 92 of the ork codex.
Other Equipment- Attack squig: a character with AN attack squig benefits from +1 attack.

It doesn't say "per attack squig", so I would surmise from that, that only one such bonus can be taken.

[BuFFo]

To the OP...

Let us say I put an apple, orange and banana in front of you. I say you can take any of them for 5 bucks each. You pay for the banana. The banana is now gone, so how can you pay for another?

It all depends on whether you think you have an unlimited supply of an item, or just the one item that is listed to take.

It would be silly if I took 5 Warbikes, and glued them all around my Warboss.