Fast Skimmers and Rune Priests...Got a weird one boys and girls

[blackarmchair]

So, say my Rune Priest casts Tempest's Wrath. And let's say a fast skimmer (take your pick which kind) attempts to turbo boost away, takes a dangerous terrain test due to my psychic power and fails it PRIOR to actually moving.

Is the vehicle immobilized and thus destroyed because it was ABOUT to turbo-boost? Or would it only become relevant after the vehicle moved?

Interesting question here with no clear answer in the rulebook. All it says is that skimmers take DT tests and all it says about dangerous terrain tests is that you take the test for any model that "enters , exits or moves through" terrain it never says WHEN in the movement phase you have to take the test.

Any ideas? Am I missing something very simple?

[Whoop!]

I think the turbo boost would have to be specified prior to the roll for dangerous terrain. Of course I have 2 rune priests in the army I am currently playing around with.

[Xas]

as I'm not familiar with the SW power lets rephrase the issue:

you have a fast skimmer which sits in terrain and wants to move away. for vehicles that 24" move is actually called "flat out" and not "turboboost" (which only exists for bikes).


without any further specification any sane person has to assume that you take your test the instant their requirements are fulfilled. in your case the dangerous terrain test is due the instant you want to start movement for the skimmer (which at the start of its movement is considered within dangerous terrain).

if you fail that test you are immobilized immediatelly (saying you get immobilied would be as reasonable as saying you do all your accomulated DT tests at the end of game...) and therefore cannot move at all.

for every and all concearns your skimmer has NOT moved in that movement phase (so regardless of its fast-type it could fire all its weapons and regardless of assoult vehicle/open topped or not passengers could disembark and assoult).

[Drew da Destroya]

I'd agree with Xas. At the time of the test, you haven't moved at all, and thus wouldn't auto-destroy.

[DrWobbles]

simply treat it like any other dangerous terrain situation and measure how far the vehicle has moved.

The vehicle may have intended to move 'flat out' but depending on where they failed the dangerous terrain test the vehicle only moved at cruising/combat speed or (in your case)not at all.

[dannyat2460]

if they are in Difficult terain they should state if they are going to be moving flat out before they roll if they roll a 1 after declairing then they are destroyed

[Paintraina]

When the DT test happens is irrelevant. Skimmers are only wrecked if they suffer a damaged result for moving flat out in their previous turn.

Understand that this also means skimmers that move into DT while going flat out will not be wrecked.

Weird.

It should be noted that you will not get away with this in tournaments though. The general interpretation is that the skimmer would be wrecked if you move it into terrain flat out.
Your ruling in a tournament setting will be ruled that the vehicle takes the test at the start of the movement and will not be wrecked regardless how far it wanted to move.

[Tynskel]

you are right, in its last turn would mean the current turn, because that's its last turn.

[blackarmchair]

Ok, maybe I didn't properly set up all the factors that go into this question because everyone seems to see what I'm generally getting at but I think a lot of people are missing the ambiguity here - my bad.

Newest BRB FAQ (Page 5):
Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as it
moved flat out what happens to any embarked models? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties

Page 57 of the BRB: Describes Vehicles and Terrain
- Vehicles treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain
- If the vehicle rolls a 1 it halts immediately and suffers an immobilized result

This seems to indicate that the skimmer would be immobilized but not destroyed as the test may be taken immediately (as Xas said it has met one of the conditions for the test).

Page 14 of the BRB: Describes Difficult and Dangerous Terrain Tests
- This page generally applies only to infantry and other non-vehicle units and describes how they are slowed by terrain
- Under the heading "Dangerous Terrain" it states that models that start in, move through or end in terrain must take a terrain test

As you can see NONE of these gives an exact time at which you take the test. Xas thinks that as soon as you fulfill any of the conditions for the test you take it immediately. This seems reasonable in a vacuum but if we consider it carefully we see that we do other things in 40k that don't follow this paradigm.

When moving infantry through difficult/dangerous terrain it is perfectly reasonable (in fact this happens commonly) to roll the difficult terrain test, then move the models and THEN take the dangerous terrain tests after the models have moved, this is not contested. In the case of infantry it's not particularly relevant when you take the test so the rulebook doesn't speak as to when you take the test. The FAQ changed some of the conditions surrounding the rule.

Put concisely, infantry commonly fulfill all three of the necessary conditions for taking a dangerous terrain test: starting in, moving through and ending in dangerous terrain but we take dangerous terrain tests for them both before and after they move with no ruling on when this is done. This is ignored because the timing of the test is not relevant to infantry. It IS highly relevant to fast skimmer transports. No ruling exists on this.

This is where the ambiguity arises for me. Xas' argument makes sense in a vacuum but there exists precedent in the rules that suggest that Xas' method is inappropriate (at least sometimes) in 40k.

I hope I made things more clear...

[somerandomdude]

I'm confused... are you suggesting that, if a vehicle starts in dangerous terrain, it doesn't take the test until after it moves?

Because that would make no sense. How can you stop immediately if you've already come to a stop?

Also, anyone who is taking Dangerous Terrain tests for infantry are not really doing it right. Its not as relevant during normal movement/running, but it actually makes a big difference for assaults and is spelled out in the book.

All terrain tests happen before the move, as the terrain test can dictate where you move.