2 rules questions: AP and Str

[SotonShades]

And Ordnance doesn't either.

I'm a little unsure as to where you are getting this information. Ordnance weapons are mentioned on pages 29, 58 and 60 of the rulebook, and it never mentions ignoring cover. I can only concieve that you are confusing the fact they usually use a large blast template (which should be referred to as a marker more accurately) with the template characteristic, which applies to weapons that use the teardrop template.

[phoenix01]

These simple questions is why most people read the rule book

"There's an old Earth saying: 'A hundred travel guides aren't worth one real trip.'"

There's a lot of rules to WH40K. To a new player, it can be seriously overwhelming. There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions about something you don't understand.The best way to learn the game is to play the game and ask the questions about the things that you don't understand.

[Porty1119]

These simple questions is why most people read the rule book

The densely, poorly-written rulebook? I'd rather ask for help from a few thousand players of the game than try to comprehend a potentially-confusing concept.

To the OP, did you play Fantasy or a similar game with save modifiers before starting 40k? It sounds as if that's what you're talking about. I personally find the concept to add a slight degree of complexity, but also represent the fact that armor protection is not a binary, on/off affair. Different weapons penetrate armor to different degrees, it is not simply a factor in protection or of no consequence. I use save modifiers in Animal Wars, and it works great because something like a Terminator-armored Leopard Gecko still gets chewed up pretty nicely by an Apache attack helicopter flown by mice, even though only one of its weapons would punch through their armor in a game of 40k.

[Culven]

I'm a little unsure as to where you are getting this information.

Steelmage99 wasn't claiming what you seem to think he was. He was alluding to the use of "Ordinance" (i.e. a statute or law) instead of "Ordnance" (notice the lack of an "i", which refers to weapons). However, pointing out the incorrect inference many make because they mistakenly believe that the Blast Markers count as Templates (typically due to common usage, but not correct by the rules).

As to the original simple questions, it would be better to refer the original poster to the relevant page in the rulebook. This makes them more familiar with where the rules can be found as well as preventing simple rules fishing from those without a rulebook. In that vein:

AP: Refer to page 20, right-hand column, the two bullet pointed items.
Instant Death: Refer to page 26. Note the reference to "unsaved wounds". This means that Instant Death is only triggered after the model has suffered a wound from an appropriate weapon.

[steelmage99]

Yep. Like Culven said it was an (obviously failed) attempt at levity.

I am not confusing Blast Makers and Templates.

I agree with Sam (whom I quoted); Ordnance weapons does not, by virtue of being Ordnance, ignore cover saves.
Ordnance Barrage have, as we all know, some special rules regarding how to determine the presence or absence of a cover save, but OB does not ignore cover altogether.


The following is a copy-paste from a document made back in the beginning of 5th. when this was discussed extensively.
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There are three different Ordnance characteristics with attending drawbacks.

A. The ability to roll two dice when penetrating armour and picking the highest, with the drawback of being disallowed to fire any other weapons.

B. Always using the large blast marker.

C. Gaining the option of firing indirectly (with an imposed Pinning Test at -1 and determining cover save from the point-of-impact), with the drawbacks of having to remain stationary and not using BS to reduce scatter if target is out of LOS.


"Ordnance" has A.

"Ordnance Blast" has A + B.

"Ordnance Barrage" has A + B + C.

All of this can be modified with specific exceptions.

[SotonShades]

Sorry, my bad. I've just had a few people I've played against recently that have made that mistake, and didn't want theirontower picking up other people's mistakes. Just hope they don't pick up mine now lol

[steelmage99]

Hehe. No problem, mate.

[Porty1119]

If all blast weapons ignored cover, I would be pretty danged happy
(I have 8 large blast weapons in a 1000pt IG army. Yes, Air Cav).

[Xas]

all my venom cannon equipped tyrants and carnifexes would be happy if double strenght ignored armor save...

oh yes would a 3" lascannon template be fun