BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    Battle-Brother
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    23

    Post Chaos Icons discussion

    I don't mean to discuss the personal icons used as summoning points for daemons. That makes sense to me and is something that I feel fits the army.

    I mean to discuss the icons of the Chaos Gods. I currently have a very negative view of them. I was much happier with the marking system of the previous Chaos Space Marine codex. However, I would like to delve into some of the other thoughts that are out there and see if I might be looking at things in an overly negative light.

    I play a Nurgle-focused army. But I refuse to buy an Icon of Nurgle. If I need Nurgle infantry, I will buy Plague Marines (and don't get me wrong, those things are the single toughest nut to crack in the game, as far as I'm concerned). I don't see any real reason to buy, say, normal Chaos Marines and give them the icon. Nor do I see a point in giving an icon to any other unit capable of taking it. It seems both expensive and fragile, since you lose the bonuses if the icon is removed as a casualty.

    So what do you think? Are these icons worth taking? Or do you agree that one ought to just stick with the cult troops for their god-specific needs?

  2. #2

    Default

    I play a Tzeentch army, and I have found the Icon quite useful, especially after playing in 'Ard Boys with the proliferation of Power and good AP weapons, and the lack of terrain in some games. In a large unit, the cost of the Icon per model drops to some rather low numbers. Combined with the lower cost per model of the Chaos Space Marines, compared to the cost of Thousand Sons, I think the benefits become more apparant. From a fluff POV, I had wanted a Tzeentch army under the previous codex, but they kept turning into Thousand Sons when I wanted my own army. With the Icons, I can finally build a Tzeentch CSM army without it turning into the Thousand Sons legion. This has allowed me the creative freedom that I wanted to create my mutation-embracing warband of Tzeentch followers, instead of being forced to use those who chose to forsake the blessings of Lord Tzeentch.

  3. #3

    Default

    I personally fight a guy who uses the icons all the time for his troops. Works pretty well for him as long as he's fielding fairly large squads so that he has a bullet shield for the icon, and as noted before, the cost for the bonus gets less the more people you throw in the squad.

  4. #4

    Default

    Let's look at it a different way: how often do you let your powerfist or special weapons die before the guys with bolters? Almost never, and only to bad rolling against more saves than you have models.

    I agree that the icon being a piece of wargear instead of a unit upgrade is very silly, but they're usually worth it. I would never field a CSM unit without at least at least the icon of chaos glory; CSM running from combat is a terrible shame.

    Think of CSM with a god's mark as being cultists lite; they're like berserkers/plague marines/noise marines/thousand sons, but are still capable of taking 2 special weapons, having bolters, being cheaper, etc. etc.

  5. #5

    Default

    I use them on most CSM units, usually weighing the per-model cost against the advantage provided. Some of my lists use 20 man unit, so having a +5 invulnerable save for 2 points per model is hard to resist, same with +1 attack for 1.5 points per.

    If I play a smaller unit (say six marines w/ meltas in a rhino) I don't generally bother. Chaos Undivided might be applied.

    Also, I have death guard lists that use icons in the DG units for preventing deep strike deviation of my termies and oblits.

    Ultimately there is a lot of versatility in using icons to modify the stat lines of various units. Terminators (I 5), raptors (5+ inv. save) and Fabius Bile'd CSM units (+1 attack) are all favorite choices to receive icons.

    But I always base my decision on the per-model cost. Three terminators will never get an icon, while ten will always get one.

  6. #6

    Default

    I agree with you about taking the Icon of Nurgle. It's just too expensive. And while I don't use the icon of Tzeentch at all either, the rest can be rather useful. I tend to take Khorne the most, as I think its the best value and appeals to my playstyle.

  7. #7

    Default

    I generally don't use them. I like the cults for the specific purposes, and having it wargear has screwed me in the past. Then again, I have the worst rolling when those situations arise.

  8. #8

    Default

    Overall, the marks took a beating in the new codex. The mark of Nurgle is really only cost effective if there is a squad of 15+ marines, which isn't generally as useful as two smaller units. However, I think that the current system of marks does manage to have a couple of benefits that weren't in the 3.5 Codex.

    One of them is that the icons can also act as a beacon for deep striking terminators. For this reason, I like to give any decent sized unit of soldiers some sort of icon as I use a fair amount of deep striking terminators.

    I like to use the Icon of Slaanesh for assaulty units like Raptors and Bikers, as it is cheap and gives you a bit of an edge fighting against other marines, plus it is a bit cheaper than the Mark of Khorne.

    The Icon of Tzeentch is good for larger Terminator squads, but overall it isn't as useful as the other marks for the cost.

  9. #9

    Default

    The main reason I love them is for non-Thousand Sons Tzeentch marines. Something I've always loved the idea of from a fluff perspective but that hasn't really been possible inside the rules.

    But yes, fully agree they should be an upgrade for the unit not a piece of wargear.

  10. #10
    Scout
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    10

    Default

    I think I agree with the consensus here.

    The Mark of Nurgle is just too expensive, I agree. The only time I've used it was in a PM + Nurgle Biker army. One of my squads lost his banner due to dangerous terrain, which was pretty obnoxious.

    If I mark infantry, it's almost exclusively Chaos Undivided. Generally I run PMs if I want an assault-capable unit with special weapons, or Berserkers if I don't care about the specials. But I haven't played with Fabius Bile in a long time, and would probably mark differently if I included him.

    I use MoTz fairly often on DSing Termies, and debate between MoK and MoS for Termies in a Land Raider. I rarely run Raptors or bikes.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •