Chaos Icons discussion

[PlaguedOne]

I don't mean to discuss the personal icons used as summoning points for daemons. That makes sense to me and is something that I feel fits the army.

I mean to discuss the icons of the Chaos Gods. I currently have a very negative view of them. I was much happier with the marking system of the previous Chaos Space Marine codex. However, I would like to delve into some of the other thoughts that are out there and see if I might be looking at things in an overly negative light.

I play a Nurgle-focused army. But I refuse to buy an Icon of Nurgle. If I need Nurgle infantry, I will buy Plague Marines (and don't get me wrong, those things are the single toughest nut to crack in the game, as far as I'm concerned). I don't see any real reason to buy, say, normal Chaos Marines and give them the icon. Nor do I see a point in giving an icon to any other unit capable of taking it. It seems both expensive and fragile, since you lose the bonuses if the icon is removed as a casualty.

So what do you think? Are these icons worth taking? Or do you agree that one ought to just stick with the cult troops for their god-specific needs?

[Culven]

I play a Tzeentch army, and I have found the Icon quite useful, especially after playing in 'Ard Boys with the proliferation of Power and good AP weapons, and the lack of terrain in some games. In a large unit, the cost of the Icon per model drops to some rather low numbers. Combined with the lower cost per model of the Chaos Space Marines, compared to the cost of Thousand Sons, I think the benefits become more apparant. From a fluff POV, I had wanted a Tzeentch army under the previous codex, but they kept turning into Thousand Sons when I wanted my own army. With the Icons, I can finally build a Tzeentch CSM army without it turning into the Thousand Sons legion. This has allowed me the creative freedom that I wanted to create my mutation-embracing warband of Tzeentch followers, instead of being forced to use those who chose to forsake the blessings of Lord Tzeentch.

[Muras]

I personally fight a guy who uses the icons all the time for his troops. Works pretty well for him as long as he's fielding fairly large squads so that he has a bullet shield for the icon, and as noted before, the cost for the bonus gets less the more people you throw in the squad.

[The Defenestrator]

Let's look at it a different way: how often do you let your powerfist or special weapons die before the guys with bolters? Almost never, and only to bad rolling against more saves than you have models.

I agree that the icon being a piece of wargear instead of a unit upgrade is very silly, but they're usually worth it. I would never field a CSM unit without at least at least the icon of chaos glory; CSM running from combat is a terrible shame.

Think of CSM with a god's mark as being cultists lite; they're like berserkers/plague marines/noise marines/thousand sons, but are still capable of taking 2 special weapons, having bolters, being cheaper, etc. etc.

[nojinx]

I use them on most CSM units, usually weighing the per-model cost against the advantage provided. Some of my lists use 20 man unit, so having a +5 invulnerable save for 2 points per model is hard to resist, same with +1 attack for 1.5 points per.

If I play a smaller unit (say six marines w/ meltas in a rhino) I don't generally bother. Chaos Undivided might be applied.

Also, I have death guard lists that use icons in the DG units for preventing deep strike deviation of my termies and oblits.

Ultimately there is a lot of versatility in using icons to modify the stat lines of various units. Terminators (I 5), raptors (5+ inv. save) and Fabius Bile'd CSM units (+1 attack) are all favorite choices to receive icons.

But I always base my decision on the per-model cost. Three terminators will never get an icon, while ten will always get one.

[steesefactor]

I agree with you about taking the Icon of Nurgle. It's just too expensive. And while I don't use the icon of Tzeentch at all either, the rest can be rather useful. I tend to take Khorne the most, as I think its the best value and appeals to my playstyle.

[Legionary]

I agree that the icon being a piece of wargear instead of a unit upgrade is very silly, but they're usually worth it.

And I think it's about the only reason that the icons aren't far too cheap. The fact that you can pay 30pts and give the unit twice as many attacks, for instance, would be so inexpensive that it'd be a joke. Since those benefits can be lost if the icon bearer is slain then they're more reasonably priced.

Unless I'm after sonic weaponry I usually select CSM with the icon of Slaanesh over Noise Marines. It's quite a large saving (in a ten-man squad, 17pts/model instead of 20pts/model).

I think the icon of Khorne is of limited use. Bezerkers are just so much better that I think if you're after combat troops you should forget the CSMs with the icon and just go for the Bezerkers.

Nurgle bikers are obviously extremely expensive but are very difficult to kill. My friend usually gives his Raptors the Nurgle icon to protect them after they've deep struck. I wouldn't give CSM squads the icon of Nurgle though: Plague Marines are so much better.

Tzeentch is worth it on units that already have an invulnerable save, otherwise I tend to think it's not very points efficient.