Battle engines worth it?

[Grabula]

I picked up the latest No Quarter today and perused the new Battle Engines rules as well as the rules for the khador gun carriage and I have to say, I'm underwhelmed. I think its points are accurate at 9 but I guess my expectations were that they would come in at something like 12-15 pts, be a little tougher than your average warjack/warbeast, and pack some umph.
I think the size of these models and all the rules making them so easy to hit are going to make it hard to vindicate using them. For example, NQ35 says you'll want to play carefully with these models, acknowledging their "brittleness". However with the gun carriages heavy guns having a range of 12", not only will you be forced to put it in range of just about everything that can charge, you'll have to spend a lot of effort to protect it.

I talk in more detail about it on my new blog: [url]http://warhed.6sided.net/[/url]

What do you guys and gals think? Can you see yourself fielding something like this on the battlefield?

[scadugenga]

I haven't read the new NQ yet, so have no idea on the actual rules/stat cards.

That being said, I remember that Battle Engines can be repaired? If so,that's a big plus.

I know I definitely want the Cygnar one--just for the cool factor, but I'm not going to hold my breath on the rules.

[tonyzahn]

I haven't proxied them yet, but I think the lack of "umph" is a result of privateer not wanting Battle Engines to take the focus away from existing models. They have a place, but if they made them much better then you'd have to field one to be competetive, which is somthing they try to avoid with new models.

The downside to that is that new models tend to have increasingly niche rules. That said, in the case of the Khador one, 9 pts for a very mobile gun platform that has 2 shots? I like that a lot.

[Inquisitor Hate Machine]

I haven't proxied them yet, but I think the lack of "umph" is a result of privateer not wanting Battle Engines to take the focus away from existing models. They have a place, but if they made them much better then you'd have to field one to be competetive, which is somthing they try to avoid with new models.

The downside to that is that new models tend to have increasingly niche rules. That said, in the case of the Khador one, 9 pts for a very mobile gun platform that has 2 shots? I like that a lot.

QFT.

I like the model and I hope to get one for my birthday in April, but it's purely a flavor unit for me. I think it's priced very competitively at 9 points because that puts it in the same league as our jacks. For the cost of the gun carriage, you can get a wardog and a destroyer. Or 2 mortars and eEiryss. But they don't have SPD 7, or aoe 4 bombards that stay a whole round to cause roughy terrain. Or can charge 10" (at LEAST, before feats and spells) and hit with two pow 12 horses that cause knockdown. And remember it can trample. That is a HUGE base!! You will trample the hell out of anything in this game! Cast Occulation on it with strakov and it would be very save from shooting. And it has Pathfinder, can be repaired...

Yeah, I think the model is just fine.

[mazgier]

And remember it can trample. That is a HUGE base!! You will trample the hell out of anything in this game!

Taking into account that it has 12cm diameter base and the Trample rules require it to end its move in a place free of any models I'm afraid you won't see it trampling that often...

[Inquisitor Hate Machine]

Taking into account that it has 12cm diameter base and the Trample rules require it to end its move in a place free of any models I'm afraid you won't see it trampling that often...

120mm is about 4.8" (being generous for poor measuring) and it's trample is 10". That means it had roughly 2" it has to clear.

Or... It's trample is 177.8mm, small bases are 30mm. It can ALMOST clear two lines of infantry.

Then again, we are forgetting the 0" Trample. Fill up it's front facing with infantry, 0" trample.

I think it can happen more often than expected.

[scadugenga]

Okay, after seeing the PP site and the back of the Ret battle engine--totally worth it.

It's definitely nasty as all get out.

[Grabula]

I certainly get the structure of the gun carriage as far as the game design aspect goes. It's not any more powerful then some Jacks and it's price at 9 pts makes it tempting. I'm not impressed with it's ability to be repaired. Repair is really hit or miss. As I mention in my blog, I find that in general, when an opponent decides he wants to trash something, it happens pretty quick. Now throw in that when your opponent decides to trash your battle engine, he doesn't have to worry about not being able to hit it since you can't hide it and I don't see it being a big factor.

I chuckled when I read trample. As it is, it's tough enough to trample with a jack and it's base size. True the Gun Carriage moves 7" so maybe, just maybe you'll occasionally get off a trample, but I see it being more difficult to accomplish than with a jack.

In all honesty, the Wrath preview in this NQ was basically a flop for me. I play Khador and Retribution and all the entries in NQ are underwhelming. For example, the Retribution Heavy Gun team. sure it's only 2 pts but Pow 7...really? HEAVY Gun team where the HEAVY gun apparently does less damage than much smaller weapons. Even with Armor Piercing, I don't see this model having much use in what is generally a highly mobile army. It can't move and shoot, and it's next to useless against anything over ARM 11 or so. I'd say it might make a solid solo hunter but again, can't move and shoot and you need to be pretty manuverable to hunt down a lot of solos.

I'm guessing The Retribution and Menoth battle engines might turn out to be slightly more useful than the Gun Carriage but overall, I'm starting to lose hope that Wrath is going to be one of those knock your socks off type of releases. In fact, I'm starting to feel like maybe Privateer is starting to run out of solid ideas and concenpts for new units...

[mazgier]

Check the PP forum. The back side of Arcantrik Generator card is there. It looks that with Polarity Shield, Range Booster and the various types of shots available for Teleforce Cannon it may become a quite viable choice.

[justsam]

i'll eventually pick up a gun carriage. i run eVlad, so pumping it up with +3 to every stat and then turning it loose should be interesting. 9 points is another juggernaut, though...