Comp Scores - when is enough enough?

**Inigo Montoya** · 03-25-2011, 11:11 AM

When I first started going to my flgs, I was bringing hard as nails, tournament optimized lists. I didn't care if the models were painted - I was a competitive player. The manager and some of the players, over the last couple of years, have moved me to always painted, more fluffy builds. It is still fun, but I am still competitive.

In his effort to push his perception of the game, our flgs manager has made the tournaments more and more comp based. I was cautiously OK with this - it was more than I wanted, but I accepted it.

The last tournament was the worst - I brought a DoA army at 1500 with a pimped out vv squad - a points sink kinda squad with 5 stormshields and a bunch of power weapons, but fluffy - all painted with a minimum of 5 colors, inked, washed, dipped, and based. Not the most gorgeous models ever, but well above tabletop.

I won 2 and lost 1. One of my wins was a 45 minute table of my opponent, the other was decisive.

Apparently, painted isn't enough now. Even though my battle points were higher, I finished behind a semi generic mini leafblower guard list that was well painted. Did I mention that he only won 1 game?

I talked to the manager about how I found this to be a bit over the top - his build was a power build, mine wasn't. Both were painted and based to above tabletop. He said it is part of the game.

I like the guys at this store, but I have a real issue with this. Asking for fluffy painted armies is one thing, but I think this is too much. I don't know how to handle it - I already brought it up and he was indifferent at best.

My snap reflex is to take my well painted guard list of doom from now on, take his petty comp hits, win all 3 decisively, and win the tournament. It would work a few times, and he would find a way to comp it out as well. This tournament your peers judged your paint, he judged your paint, and he had a huge FOC tally list of dings if you didn't build the army as generic as possible. I am really annoyed that what I said had absolutely no impact - it was clear he didn't care. I used to frequent a shop across town, but I find the players at this store far more competitive, and I have made a number of friends there ( who by the way agree 100% with me, they just won't confront him.

How would you handle this? Should I just pack up and head to the old shop? I know I could get my friends to come to the other store to play, I just don't know if I want to do that or not.

I don't think I would be nearly as upset if he hadn't just dismissed it without discussion when I brought it up. He did, and I am.

He has become so polarized that some of the store players organized a 40k point apoc game while he was working and didn't tell him - he is making far more people tham me angry, and it makes me sad.

**gcsmith** · 03-25-2011, 11:40 AM

Move shop yes, Comp scores are a crap thought out by enemies to the game. Painting should be a seperate prize awarded at the tourney, best general should be about winning, after all tournements are about GAMING, having best painted win the best general is like making golden daemon players battle for best painted.

**Astral Platypus** · 03-25-2011, 11:40 AM

One vanguard vet squad shouldn't do that to you. Was there maybe something else about your army that did that?

Some of the comp score stuff I have seen gets based on # or % of troops in your army. Did this other guy go all out on that? Yes, I am aware how powerful guard armies can be like this.

There could be any number of things going on here. Maybe this store has a lot of IG product the owner wants moved.

If you think you did better than the other guy you may be right, but ask yourself what justification there might have been, even if it's not a good one, in your opinion.

**DarkLink** · 03-25-2011, 12:05 PM

This is the reason why I've never gone to a tournament run by the closes lgs to my hometown. They always have some #$%^& comp rules that I won't be bothered to deal with. Luckily my college town players dislike comp as much as I do.

If you want some advice, there's some good articles about this on 3++ is the new black. A couple of the guys there are from Australia, where apparently comp is all the rage. They have a lot of stuff on how to make a "fluffy" list that can still be competitive.

**gcsmith** · 03-25-2011, 12:27 PM

Shame that a fluffy BT army with crusaders would be penalised heavily

**Bean** · 03-25-2011, 12:53 PM

I was also at that tournament. To be fair, the comp requirements were all on a rubric that was posted ahead of time. I know I sat down and figured out how to squeeze as many of those comp points out of my list (without making it bad) as I could. That guard list got 14 out of 18 possible comp points. How many did you get?

I don't think they were very good comp requirements, and I don't really like comp requirements very much, but the TO in this particular instance did make it easy to make sure you got a reasonable number of points, and the comp points weren't a huge part of the overall score.

At least they weren't subjective. They were somewhat game-able, but it's not like people were looking at your Vanguard squad, thinking "that's cheesy!" and giving you zeros. I thought your vanguard squad was awesome. Like, five storm shields. Woo!

**Lerra** · 03-25-2011, 01:24 PM

The problem with comp is that it penalizes the old codices much more than the new codices, and it often penalizes fluffy or themed lists. A Space Wolves or IG player can look at that rubric and find a way to build a solid army list within that framework. A Necron player doesn't have many options and will have to take whatever he gets for comp. Fluffy/themed lists are also limited - there isn't much room to alter an all-Slaanesh list, or pure Deathwing.

**HsojVvad** · 03-25-2011, 01:35 PM

This may sound harsh, but first of all, Grow Up. You are playing with plastic toy soliders. It sounds like I didn't win, I am going else where.

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

When I first started going to my flgs, I was bringing hard as nails, tournament optimized lists. I didn't care if the models were painted - I was a competitive player. The manager and some of the players, over the last couple of years, have moved me to always painted, more fluffy builds. It is still fun, but I am still competitive.

Here you said it yourself, you are a comptetive player. So you got beat by another competivie player. So what is the big deal?

In his effort to push his perception of the game, our flgs manager has made the tournaments more and more comp based. I was cautiously OK with this - it was more than I wanted, but I accepted it.

Sorry I don't see
the problem here. I thought this is what you wanted, more competitive, since you bring "hard as nails" army as you just said yourself above.

The last tournament was the worst - I brought a DoA army at 1500 with a pimped out vv squad - a points sink kinda squad with 5 stormshields and a bunch of power weapons, but fluffy - all painted with a minimum of 5 colors, inked, washed, dipped, and based. Not the most gorgeous models ever, but well above tabletop.

I won 2 and lost 1. One of my wins was a 45 minute table of my opponent, the other was decisive.

I don't know what DoA is.

Apparently, painted isn't enough now. Even though my battle points were higher, I finished behind a semi generic mini leafblower guard list that was well painted. Did I mention that he only won 1 game?

Ok I agree with you here. It shouldn't matter about beautifully painted armies. It's about how many games you win/loose/draw. I hate when it comes to painting or how armies look. So I agree why you would be upset here. The only thing is, did you know about this before hand? If you did, then you did agree to it before hand so you should have know before hand this could and most likely happen. Still it sucks and I hate it.

I talked to the manager about how I found this to be a bit over the top - his build was a power build, mine wasn't. Both were painted and based to above tabletop. He said it is part of the game.

I don't get what you are complaining about. Didn't you just say in the begining of the game, you bring "hard as nails" lists? You play competively? So basically you were playing someone like you? So it's ok for you to do it, but not others? So next time you do the same thing that you use to do, but with a painted army.

I like the guys at this store, but I have a real issue with this. Asking for fluffy painted armies is one thing, but I think this is too much. I don't know how to handle it - I already brought it up and he was indifferent at best.

Sorry it just seems someone finally played like you, but you don't like being on the other end of it. Again, next time, bring a list like his. This is only a one time instance. Why are you making a mountian out of a mole hill if it's a one time thing. I say if this happened 3 or 4 times, then yes you have something to complain about, but only once? Come on, get over it, you lost no big deal. Rememeber PLASTIC TOY SOLDIERS you are playing with. You really upset over a one time event?

My snap reflex is to take my well painted guard list of doom from now on, take his petty comp hits, win all 3 decisively, and win the tournament. It would work a few times, and he would find a way to comp it out as well. This tournament your peers judged your paint, he judged your paint, and he had a huge FOC tally list of dings if you didn't build the army as generic as possible. I am really annoyed that what I said had absolutely no impact - it was clear he didn't care. I used to frequent a shop across town, but I find the players at this store far more competitive, and I have made a number of friends there ( who by the way agree 100% with me, they just won't confront him.

Why not? Do it. You are a competitive player, play to win. This is your play style after all.

As for the comment of talking to the owner of the store and he didn't care, then yeah, I agree with you, I would leave and never bother coming back. Do you have other places to go and play? So you have 2 options. Suck it up and play, or leave. Do you buy things at his store? After all if you don't buy anything there and play there, you play by his rules then. But if you do support this store owner, then talk with your WALLET and don't buy from him anymore because of him being a douch not listening to your or taking your comments with any heart.

I have stopped shopping at a store because the owner or people couldn't take any interest. Now they don't sell any 40K because there is no buyers now. So your Wallet speaks the loudest.

How would you handle this? Should I just pack up and head to the old shop? I know I could get my friends to come to the other store to play, I just don't know if I want to do that or not.

I don't think I would be nearly as upset if he hadn't just dismissed it without discussion when I brought it up. He did, and I am.

He has become so polarized that some of the store players organized a 40k point apoc game while he was working and didn't tell him - he is making far more people tham me angry, and it makes me sad.

Well remember I think your anger is justified. It's not over your opponent, but it's more of the store owner. Is this the first time he did this to you? It looks like he does this to others, so maybe if it happens one more time, I would say, "you just lost a customer and my friends as well, we are going to your competion from now on."

Remember it's a game, I too get too easily pissed off. Rememeber it's a plastic toy soldier game. ( a really expensive toy soldier game) This has more to do with the store owner than anything, so I say give it one more chance since you like to play there, but if the store owner is a dick and douche, just leave, he is not worth it at all.

**Inigo Montoya** · 03-25-2011, 02:16 PM