Compiled GK Rules Questions

[DarkLink]

So, the Codex isn’t even out, but over on Bolter and Chainsword they’ve already compiled a sizeable list of questions for a FAQ/Errata. I’m finishing spring break with nothing better to do, so I went through and answered as many as I could, since it’ll be useful to know all the details of my new codex. If anyone catches anything that I missed, bring it up.

Some of the questions are vague, and do need and answer from GW. Others do have an answer, even if it might not be obvious. And some of the questions were so obvious it left me questioning the source’s reading comprehension and understanding of the rules .

Anyway, here it is:

Wargear

Do a pair of Nemesis Falcions give +1A (from thier special rule), or +2A (from thier rule plus using two 1 handed CCWs) in total?

+2A total. It’s a pair of CCW that separately grant +1A. There’s no reason to think that the +1A somehow denies the second +1A for having 2CCW.

Think of them as a pair of Lightning Claws except instead of granting rerolls to wounds they grant a second bonus attack.

And, no, Falchions don’t let you reroll anything. They just grant bonus attacks. Some people still seem to think that they're actually lightning claws. That is not in the codex.

How do Nemesis Doomfists work for the Nemesis DreadKnight? Not being a Walker, do these double the NDK Strength?

Dreadknights are not walkers. DCCWs double the strength of walkers, and only walkers. For a Dreadknight, Doomfists only count as power weapons. They do not double strength according to RAW.

Do Servo Skulls reduce the scatter distance for Orbital Strike Relay blasts that land within 12" of them?

Probably not, since the OSR "always scatters".

5: Do the effects of Servo Skulls stack? If a blast lands within 12" of two of them, or a Unit DS's within 12" of two (or more), is the Scatter reduced by additional 1d6's?

You “roll one d6 less”, but the chriteron for doing so is “being within 12” of a servo skull”. It doesn’t matter how many there are, it only matters if there are any at all. So no, you only ever reduce scatter by 1d6 total.

6: If an enemy unit deep strikes onto a servo skull is it a mishap or does the servo skull retreat? What about friendly units?

Servo Skulls do not prevent an enemy unit from deepstriking near them, so they would be able to move near the skull and cause it to retreat.

Additionally, servo skulls are just counters, not units, so they’re not really there. No one would mishap from landing on one, and the skull would run away if it was an enemy unit that just landed.

7: Can you Master Craft a Grenade? What about an Orbital Strike Relay? Silly, I know, but it says it's treated as a weapon. And listed with the rest of the Weapons.

/shrug/
Maybe?

9: Does the Orbital Strike Relay weapon of a GKGM or Techmarine attached to a unit contiaining at least 1 Jokaero Weaponsmith bebefit from thier 'Inconceivable Customisation'? Can your Orbital Strike gain the Rending property from this ability?

Yes and yes. (jwolf)

10: Is the Orbital Strike weapon a Barrage weapon?

Yes. (jwolf)

11: Personal Teleported description says that the unit can make a 30" movement in any direction instead of making a normal movement. Well, if an IC is attached we know that the normal movement allowed would be 6", instead of 12" (Limited to the slowest speed in the unit). But the special rule says nothing about not working with attached ICs (as, on the contrary, other rules do, like Heroic Intervention or Descent of Angels). Thus, it seems legal to attach an IC and make a 30" movement, instead of accomplishing a 6" normal one. Is this correct?

Unclear. The Shunt move requires the unit to have personal teleporters, but does not specify if everyone has to have them. It is likely that GW will rule that everyone has to have them. Otherwise, it is perfectly legal for an attached IC to hitch a ride, as the rule simply says “…the unit may make a 30” move…”

12: Can a unit with a Nul Rod cast psychic powers providing they don't affect their own unit? eg Smite

Yes, the unit can still case psychic powers all they want. They just can’t be affected by any of them.

If an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor has a Nemisis Daemon Hammer and a Force Weapon does it get the +1 attack for 2 CCWs? Are Nemisis Daemon Hammers, force weapons or thunder hammers (or both) for working out whether they get an aditional close combat attack?

Daemonhammers are Thunderhammers, which are a different type of special weapon than Force Weapons. So no bonus attacks.

15: If an Inquisitor is armed with a Daemonblade but is not a psyker what is the effect of an 11-12 on the chart? If a model is armed with a Daemonblade and a special weapon (eg force weapon) do they still have to use the special weapon in close combat?

The Inquisitor has no psychic powers, but the Daemonblade becomes a Force Weapon and the Inquisitor is now one Psychic Mastery level higher than he was. So it seems he gets a force weapon, and he can use it.

16: If a stubbon unit is assaulted by (or assaults) a unit with psychotroke grenades is their leadership modified by the 'They're Horrible' result? How does this interact with Ork Mob rule? Does the psychotroke grenades' 'The world is spinning' override Eldar Banshee masks? If 2 units, both with Psychotroke grenades assualt a single unit do the results stack.

17: Is the Initiative test for the brain mines taken on unmodified Initiative or do we factor in modifiers like FC, Psykout Grenades etc?

Depends on the modifier.

18: Since there are wargear items that modify leadership, is the leadership used for the psychic hood unmodified? This may have to be done on a codex by codex basis.

Codex by Codex basis.

19: Are Pintle mounted Storm Bolters with Psycannon Bolts, main or defensive weapons? Their strength makes them main, but the rules list them as 'an additional defensive weapon'.

They start out as “an additional defensive weapon”, but when you give them psycannon bolts they become main weapons.

Units

1: Do Henchmen made Troops by Inquisitor Coteaz's 'Lord of Formosa' rule take up a FoC slot? Or do they retain the Elite versions property of not taking a FoC slot?

Lots of argument here, so I won’t bother adding anything that’s already been covered.

2: What initiative step is the hyperstone maze performed at? At what point do you count the number of wounds the model has, so if attacks are made simultanously and cause wounds do they count? How many wounds do we count for combat res?

She can use the hyperstone maze at any point in time. She just can’t make any CC attacks that round. That’s the only restriction. Wounds are counted when the opponent has to roll, which is immediately after she uses the hyperstone maze.

Why did they say “round”, though? The game is organized into phases, player turns and game turns. Round is not standard nomenclature. WTF GW? Why bother spending a page in the BRB defining the "Turn", when you don't even bother to use the phrase? I wish Privateer Press wrote GW's rules for them, they'd never let something as stupid as this get through...

3: If units that arrive in a transport that used the deepstrike rule count as deepstriking can Coteaz's "I've been expecting you" be used to target the unit and can he target the unit and the transport or must he choose?

By RAW, he can target both, as both have deepstruck within range of Coteaz. GW might go with the "pick one or the other" ruling, same as from the old mystic rules.

4: What happens to the Jokaero 'Inconceivable Customisation' ability when you have 6 or more Jokaero in the unit? When you have 6 Jokaero in a unit you are guaranteed to roll the 6+ option, when you roll again you have no other choice but to continually take the 6+ option which makes you roll again and you're stuck in a loop. If you ignore the bonus, then you can risk getting option 1 which is nothing happens, which is one of the reasons to take more than one so you don't get that option. What do you do then?

Stuck in a loop.

5: More 'Inconceivable Customisation' Questions. The improvement only happens at the deployment, does it affect the whole unit of henchmen or does it also affect ICs attached during deployment? Do those bonuses go away if the IC leaves the henchmen unit or do they stay? Does another IC joining the henchmen unit later on get these bonuses? Would it be able to modify a Daemon Hosts attacks? Would it be able to modify Psychic Barrage?

Technically the whole unit benefits, and there's nothing that would cause you to lose it...

6: If you have multiple Grand Masters (including Mordrak and Draigo) in your army, can you use multiple 'The Grand Strategies'? Or are you limited on only one, regardless of how many Grand Masters you have?

You can use multiples. Each GM grants rules to d3 units.

7: As the Dark Eldar Cruicible of Malediction forces a Leadership test, are Grey Kngiht vechiles effected by this? If they are and they fail, are they removed from play? If the vehicle is also a Transport, what happens to any embarked units? Are they also removed from play?

Removed from play, it seems. Same with the unit inside, presumably.

Real dick move on behalf of the DE player. Not really broken, it’s just not fun for the GK player.

9: For the dreadknight's heavy incinerator do we measure the range from the gun on the model as suggested by the codex or the base as is normal with monstrous creatures?

The codex says 12” of the weapon, so measure 12” from the weapon.

10: The techmarine can take digital weapons, do the servo arms benefit from them?

Yes. Digital weapons allow you to reroll one to wound roll per turn made by that model. There is no restriction on what weapons caused that reroll.

11: If an enemy unit chooses to target, in the shooting phase, a culexus assassin, but fails their leadership test can they do any of the following; Run? Assault the assassin the following assault phase? Fire different weapons/weapon profiles than the ones they would have shot the assassin with? Split their fire differently (eg long fangs)? Use smoke launchers?

Once you decide to try and shoot, you cannot Run of use smoke launchers. You also have to declare your targets all at once, so if the long fangs shot 1 guy at the assassin and 4 at something else, only the guy shooting the assassin can change targets.

The power only protects the assassin from being targeted by shoot, so as long as the unit does not shoot something else he can still be assaulted.

12: Is FNP considered a save for the purposes of Valaria's Rune's of destiny?

FNP isn’t technically a save, so probably not.

13: If Valeria rolls a double 1,2, or 3 with her 2 bonus attacks are they disgarded because she wouldn't have counted as hitting herself due to the WS chart? Do any wounds she causes on herself count towards combat res and if so to who's side?

Yes, they would miss.

Any wounds caused against her would count against her side in CC, as combat resolution is determined by wounds lost on each side.

14: Can the Calladius Assassin be deployed normally or must it use the Polymorphine?

If the assassin is placed in Reserves, it must use Polymorphine. The assassin does not need to be placed in reserves as far as I can see, so you could deploy normally.

15: Polymorphine: it states it can be used against any enemy "unit", which by RAW included vehicles. Which Arc would the hit go against? As the Callidus is placed after the hits are resolved, you can't use that as a basis.

Whatever arc you want?

16: Polymorphine: If the wounds from Polymorphine wipe out a unit, is the Callidus automatically killed since she cannot be placed within 3" of anyone? Or would she suffer a deep strike mishap, potentially coming back again next round on another unit? What happens if there are no enemy units on the board when she comes out of reserve?

Don’t target a unit that could be completely killed.
I would say within 3" of where the unit was is correct. (jwolf)

17: If the brotherhood champion is in close combat with a unit of monstrous creatures and chooses the Rapier Strike stance can he only kill 1 model from the unit or are wounds allocated as normal? Can he use this ability to snipe out monstrous creatures out of units?

He can only hit one model: “…must direct his attacks at a single IC/MC in base contact…”

18: Does the hammer of righteousness ability affect both shooting and close combat attacks?

Uh, I couldn't find any 'hammer of righteousness'...

19: Can the grand master's grand strategy affect assassins, Crowe, and Mordrak (if he doesn't take any ghost knights), who are listed as characters but not Independent ones? What about allies?

Technically, yes they can affect them. I wouldn’t be surprised to see this errata’d.

21: If an IC is joined to a unit with the brotherhood banner and the banner activates the force weapons, does the IC have to activate his? At what Initiative step is this performed, the IC may have a higher or lower Initiative? What happens if the IC has run out of powers he can cast for that turn?

The banner itself doesn’t activate force weapons. It allows you to automatically pass the psychic test if you choose to activate your force weapons. You choose to activate force weapons as normal, you just don’t need to take a psychic test to do so, IC included.

22: Is Mordrak considered to be the justicar in his unit of ghost knights or is it always randomly determined? If so can he cast a different psychic power to his unit?

Justicars are upgrade characters, Mordrak is effectively an upgrade character, so yes, he is a Justicar.

23: If Justicar Thawn is taken, can he use psychic powers separate to his unit? He's mastery level 2, but both psychic powers he has are normally squad based ones.

Justicar Thawn is the unit’s Justicar, so he can’t cast separately. He can, however, allow the unit to use two powers per turn.



Psychic Powers

1: Do squads deep striking by being targetted by 'The Summoning' scatter? If so, are they effected by Teleport Homers, as they aren't explicitly listed as DSing by means of Teleoprtation?

When you place a unit using deepstrike rules, you scatter. And it doesn’t say they’re Teleporting, so Teleport homers don’t really help.

2: Can you cast the summoning on units that are falling back? Can you cast it on your own unit?

Yes, and kinda yes. If you target your own unit, however, the Librarian is picked up but can’t be placed again, because he’s no longer on the board for you to place him within 6” of himself. So don’t do it.
I would say within 6" of where the Librarian was; this is only useful when falling back, I would think. Odd one, for sure. (jwolf)

3: It is written that The Summoning power has to be used at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase. Does it refer to the Librarian movement, and consequently it is usable immediately after a Deep Strike deployment of the Librarian, or to the Librarian player movement phase, and consequently it is not usable in the turn in which the Librarian arrives through Deep Strike?

No. The Librarian is not on the board at the beginning of the movement phase. Eldar players already suffer from this, as a lot of their powers are used at the beginning of the turn.

4: For the psychic power Dark Excommunication, what exactly qualifies as "Daemonic Gifts"?

I would say anything that a Daemon has to purchase. If it’s in the statline, the Daemon still gets it, but if the Daemon had to spend points on that upgrade, it doesn’t.
Reading the battle report in White Dwarf, this is any special ability of the Daemon. (jwolf)

5: Astral Aim: The wording states that the enemy unit "has a 4+ cover save that cannot be modified". If I used an incinerator (within range), would the incinerator template effect still ignore the cover save (does "ignoring" a cover save count as "modifying" it)?

If you use an Incinerator, the model get a 4+ cover save. And he can take that save all he wants. Cover saves just don’t do anything against templates, as templates ignore cover.

6: Astral Aim allows a Purgation squad to ignore LoS. Can a Purgation Squad embarked on a vehicle use Astral Aim to shoot more wepaons than would be allowed by any Fire Points?

Probably not.

7: Can we stack psychic powers like the 'strength of titan' meaning our units could possibly receive a +3S & +3D6 for vehicle penetration?

Might of Titan only explicitly stacks with Hammerhand, implying that psychic powers don’t otherwise stack.

8: Does the shrouding psychic power affect vehicles and/or monstrous creatures? Currently vehicles need to be obscured to get a cover save which the power doesn't state, and it doesn't appear to override the 50% rule for MCs.

Yes. Vehicles are units, and Monstrous Creatures are units, and so they get a cover save/stealth. Any ork player could have told you this.

9: I assume the psker's Psychic Barrage cannot go above strength 10 or below ap1. But if you have additional psykers in the unit are they forced to contribute to the attack? Also if more than 1 psyker is in the unit can any additional models fire their laspistols or are they all considered to be firing a weapon? Which psyker is used to measure to see if a psychic hood is in range? If the unit is in a rhino/chimera is the number of psykers contributing limited to fire points?

Can't go above str 10/ap1. All psykers contribute, none can fire any other weapons since they're using a psychic power, and if any are in range of a psychic hood then they can be blocked.

On the bright side since it's only one actual 'shot', you only need one fireport to use the power.

10: What initiative value do you use for the warp rift psychic power, is it the majority or the best?

I would allocate the tests like wounds, then use each model’s Initiative. Unlike phil kelly, at least mat ward was smart enough to word this power so that you can't pick out enemy models.

11: If a psyker has mastery level 2 or more can they cast the same power more than once per turn, assuming they aren’t shooting attacks, if the first casting was unsuccessful?

Yes. Half the other armies in the game with psykers could tell you this.

Definitions

The following things need official definitions of what they are.
1: Psykers
2: Daemons
3: Daemonic Gifts
4: Open Terrain (for the sanctuary power)
5: Plasma weaponry (for the siphon)

Yeah, good luck getting GW to ever bother to run a tight ship. You want precise and well-defined rules, go play Warmachine.



Answered Questions

For reference, these aren’t my answers

1: Does a Vindicare Shieldbreaker round remove all Invulnerable Saves granted by wargear, or one per shot? For example a Space Marine Captain with both an Iron Halo and a Storm Shield.

It removes both ‘the model loses all invulnerable saves granted by items of wargear’.

2: Can you define what a character is for the purposes of the Hyperstone maze? Could it for example affect Bjorn the Fell Handed or Mephiston?

Page 47 of the rulebook defines a character as any model with the IC special rule or squad sergeants.

3: Can units embarks in Transports be summoned with 'The Summoning'?

From the Rulebook FAQ:
Q: Can Psychic powers be used on a unit embarked on a transport? (p50)
A: For simplicity’s sake, the answer has to be a firm No, unless the psyker himself is in the unit being transported

4: Does Mordrak's squad and Mordrak each count as a kill point?

No, Mordrak would be worth an additional kill point if he was an IC and his unit was a retinue. However because he lacks the IC special rule he is merely treated as an upgrade character for his unit. If you think of him more like the warlock for an eldar guardians unit, except instead of having an option of buying the warlock (Mordrak) to go with the guardians (ghosts) it works in reverse, you buy him first then his unit is the optional part. (Sorry about using the Eldar as an example, but I was struggling to find anything power armoured to use)

5: How does Quickening Initiative bonus work with tyranid Lash whips? How does Nemesis Force Halberds Initiative bonus work with tyranid Lash whips?

From the Tyranid FAQ:
Q:If a model with Lash Whips is attacking a model with an Initiative-boosting rule/piece of wargear (e.g. Furious Charge, an Eldar Banshee Mask, etc.), which order are the Initiatives modified?
A: The Lash Whips will reduce an enemy model’s initiative to 1 before any other modifiers are applied. So, a model with Furious Charge that assaults a Tyranid with Lash Whips will strike at Initiative 2

[bonedale]

Is the rule different for Null Rods now? I thought they killed all psy effects in a squad, good or bad.

Also, finally someone posted the fact Falchions don't get rerolls.

Thanks for the Q&A

[DarkLink]

The null rod is now a power weapon that also inflicts instant death against psykers. The bearer and his unit are immune to the affects of both friendly and enemy psychic powers.

So you could still cast, say, hammerhand, you just wouldn't get any bonuses from it.

I'm tempted to take an Inquisitor with a null rod with a unit of paladins so I can flip off Rune Priests. I've played two games so far, both against our SW player (who takes hardcore tournament lists). I won both games, but in the first one his Rune Priests killed a Grand Master and all 6 Paladins with JotWW, and in the second game Njal killed Driago. Unfortunately, null rods and servo skulls are about the only good thing about Ordos hereticus Inquisitors.

Otherwise, though, the sheer firepower the paladins soaked up more than makes up for their losses. Aside from JotWW, he caused about 2 wounds total in the first game, and I lost 2 paladins and took 2-3 more wounds total. As long as you can avoid Fire Dragons and Dark Lance spam, Paladins are very, very, very, very hard to kill.

[gcsmith]

I like how you post how crucible of malediction is a dick move on behalf of the DE player, I thought the idea of pyschic vehilces is more of a dick move,

Lol how can using a codex to its maximum be considered a dick move?

[Gir]

Dreadknights are not walkers. DCCWs double the strength of walkers, and only walkers. For a Dreadknight, Doomfists only count as power weapons. They do not double strength according to RAW.

There is no rule that says that.

1: Psykers
2: Daemons
3: Daemonic Gifts
4: Open Terrain (for the sanctuary power)
5: Plasma weaponry (for the siphon)

1. Anything with the "psyker" special rule.
2. Everything from the Daemons codex, Avatar of Khaine, Greater and lesser daemons, Possessed marines and Daemon princes. (I'm sure one armies FAQ's has this list)
3. Anything taken from "Daemonic gifts" section of the Chaos Daemons codex.
4. No idea, need to know what the power does.
5. Anything with "Plasma" in the name, Eldar Starcannon.

[Bean]

For what it's worth, the squad with 6+ Jokaero Weaponsmiths doesn't get stuck in a loop when you resolve the "inconceivable customization" rule: the 6 result specifically says to discard duplicate results, including further rolls of six. You roll it once, get a six automatically, roll it twice more, get two more automatic sixes, discard both (since they're duplicates, at this point) and that's it. You get nothing, the game goes on.

[Lemt]

There is no rule that says that.

Page 73 of the rulebook. It says that a DCCW is a power weapon that doubles the walker's strength in melee. So I guess RAW he's right.

16: If a stubbon unit is assaulted by (or assaults) a unit with psychotroke grenades is their leadership modified by the 'They're Horrible' result? How does this interact with Ork Mob rule? Does the psychotroke grenades' 'The world is spinning' override Eldar Banshee masks? If 2 units, both with Psychotroke grenades assualt a single unit do the results stack.

Banshee Masks specify they ignore grenades and cover, so you can't mess up their initiative with grenades.

[Gir]

Page 73 of the rulebook. It says that a DCCW is a power weapon that doubles the walker's strength in melee. So I guess RAW he's right.

If you interprate it as a rule instead of choice of words, something's that's not a walker can't have DCCW.

[DarkLink]

Unfortunately, no, there's nothing that restricts anything from taking a DCCW if it's in their options. The BRB just says:

A DCCW is a power weapon that doubles the walker's strength to a maximum of 10.



I'd expect this to be FAQ'd, since it seems like it's another case of sloppy rules on GW's part, but by RAW only walkers double strength.

[Tynskel]

There is no rule that says that.



1. Anything with the "psyker" special rule.
2. Everything from the Daemons codex, Avatar of Khaine, Greater and lesser daemons, Possessed marines and Daemon princes. (I'm sure one armies FAQ's has this list)
3. Anything taken from "Daemonic gifts" section of the Chaos Daemons codex.
4. No idea, need to know what the power does.
5. Anything with "Plasma" in the name, Eldar Starcannon.

you forgot daemon weapons.