Where are all the good guys?

[Grabula]

So who are the good guys in the 40K universe? Seems to me that the Eldar are pretty much it. I don't know a lot about the Tau so they might fit into this category. However, it just seems that the Eldar are the only race currently just tooling around trying to do their own thing. Sure they occasionally are forced to attack in the defense of their craftworlds or maiden worlds. Otherwise, seems everyone else is sort of on the bad side.

As a caveat to this, anyone find the Space Wolves despicable after reading "The Thousand Sons"? I was never a real fan to begin with but after that book I'd like to see them wiped from the universe fo evuh.

[eldargal]

Well, if you define good as 'not actively trying to destroy the galaxy and/or enslave all other races then Eldar would be good. But if you mean good in the contemporary sense, I think they forfeited that when they directed Waagh! Thraka to Armageddon resulting in tens of billions of deaths. As for the rest, the Imperium and Tau are trying to survive, nothing wrong with that. The Imperium, though, are xenophobic mass murderers and the Tau are insidiously despicable in a subtle, Orwellian way. The Orks are neither good nor bad, they just like krumpkin 'eads.
Chaos and Necrons are downright evil. Tyranids are probably in the category of Orks, I'm not sure they are malicious, just doing what their biology tells them. It all depends how capable of rational thought the Hive Mind is.

[Grabula]

I get the sense that in general the Eldar are forced to do things like steer Ork waaaghs to imperial planets, sort of a proactive defense of a race on the brink. I'm of the opinion that if the eldar knew they would be left to their own devices, they'd choose to leave well enough alone.

Honestly, of them all I think the Imperium is the worst. Since the days of the Great Crusade they've done nothing but lead pogroms' and commit atrocities against other races, supposedly in the defense of the human race. They don't have the excuse of future sight, really, that the Eldar do. Ultimately it's a racist and xenophobically hypocritical society filled with a zeal for destruction of all things not deemed apropriate. I could understand some misunderstanding of the Eldar or Tau. Fighting Orks, Tyranid and Chaos makes sense since all three of those are threats to the survival of the species.

I think it's the Horus Heresy novels that have impressed upon me the despicable nature of the Imperium as a whole. When forces such as the Space Wolves are iconic, penultimate examples of dedication to Imperial beliefs than there is no denying the imperium is as bad as say the forces of Chaos, in my opinion anyway.

I'd agree that Orks and Tyranid are just doing what they are driven to do, that there's no other choice in their nature. Chaos is the most readily identifiable evil, along with Dark Eldar, but one could argue that even Chaos is just essentially a force or forces of nature.

[Fellend]

I get the sense that in general the Eldar are forced to do things like steer Ork waaaghs to imperial planets, sort of a proactive defense of a race on the brink. I'm of the opinion that if the eldar knew they would be left to their own devices, they'd choose to leave well enough alone.

Honestly, of them all I think the Imperium is the worst. Since the days of the Great Crusade they've done nothing but lead pogroms' and commit atrocities against other races, supposedly in the defense of the human race. They don't have the excuse of future sight, really, that the Eldar do. Ultimately it's a racist and xenophobically hypocritical society filled with a zeal for destruction of all things not deemed apropriate. I could understand some misunderstanding of the Eldar or Tau. Fighting Orks, Tyranid and Chaos makes sense since all three of those are threats to the survival of the species.

I think it's the Horus Heresy novels that have impressed upon me the despicable nature of the Imperium as a whole. When forces such as the Space Wolves are iconic, penultimate examples of dedication to Imperial beliefs than there is no denying the imperium is as bad as say the forces of Chaos, in my opinion anyway.

I'd agree that Orks and Tyranid are just doing what they are driven to do, that there's no other choice in their nature. Chaos is the most readily identifiable evil, along with Dark Eldar, but one could argue that even Chaos is just essentially a force or forces of nature.

First of all, you have to define what is evil. Because if you say that Eldar are not evil because they are trying to stay alive, then neither is the Imperium. The Imperium does nothing but try to stay alive, the problem is that the ways to achieve this are varied.
Also Eldar does have the ability to make decisions based on the future, Imagine having permanent hindsight (captain hindsight GOOOO!) The Imperium does not have this luxury, like any normal being they base their decisions on what they know. And what they know is that everyone else is out to get them, defying the will of the Emperor leads to chaos and massdeath and reserching things leads to the dark age of technology, so for the sake of protecting everyone, it's best to kill anything that disagrees with you.

But if you look at it through a pair of modern eyes. Sure they are evil, but I bet you would be as well if everything in the universe is trying to kill you or use your soul as gateway to massmurder

[Wildeybeast]

Tau aren't evil, they are trying to spread peace and enlightenment throughout the whole galaxy. The Greater Good offers peace, mutual respect and admiration for the skills and values of others and the chance to live according to your own values and beliefs so long as you work according to the Greater Good. For example, humans can still worship the emperor if they want. That is why so many humans are volunatarily joining the Greater Good. The Tau only fight other races because they are too stupid to realise this and need to be brought into the Greater Good by force. Unfortunately, there are some races who will always be opposed to the Greater Good (Orks, Chaos, Nids etc) and for the good of the rest of the galaxy, they need to be wiped out.

We also have to remember in this debate that there are thousands of intelligent species throughout the galaxy and that humanity controls only a tiny fraction of it, so there could be plenty of 'good' races out there, but at the end of the day they all have to fight if they want to survive.

[eldargal]

Yes, the Tau are lovely, until you say 'sod off' and they exterminate your populace and steal your planet. That what is so insidious about the Tau, its all for the Greater Good, but if you just want to be left alone or make your own choices then they will subjugate you just as brutally as the Imperium. With the possible exception that they may let some of you live, unlike the Imperium.

[Cyberscape7]

Well the Imperium are evil to a certain degree. The guard are basically fighting out of fear of the "xenos threat" imposed by the inquisition. Space Marines in all fairness don't kill EVERY alien that they come across, just the majority. The necrons, evil? The c'tan yes but the actual necrontyr not so much. More insane than anything else (hinted in the BRB). Chaos as a whole are evil. Orks and Nids are more instinctive than anything, just doing what comes naturally. Dark Eldar= supervillains. Nuff said. Tau are communists so that kind of answers itself. Eldar do try to make things better in the universe its just the way they go about it is pretty brutal.
To sum up all races mentioned above are either in the grey or black, no one really "good." The real good guys, funnily enough, are peaceful. I speak of the Exodites, living off the land and not wanting to cause any trouble. Of course all this is just my opinion...

[justsam]

this argument always amuses me. i get why the discussion comes about, but you're trying to impose contemporary morality in a game whose tagline is "in grim darkness of the far future there is ONLY war". that being said, i've always thought that the nids were the least "evil" of any faction. if they'd been pointed at a different galaxy, the imperium wouldn't even know about them. they're just trying to get a decent meal.

[Smotku]

There really is no good vs evil only order and chaos. Trying to preserve your right to survive is certainly on the side of order so the imperium, Tau and the eldar fall there. Seeking nothing but the destruction of others such as Chaos, necorons, Tyrinids and Orks makes them fall into the catagory of chaos.

[jorz192]

The way warhammer was created there are no "good" or "bad" guys really. It's more shades of grey than black and white.

Sometimes I wish there was just one group that you could say was the "good" guys in the warhammer universe but they just don't exist.

I guess the shades of grey is kind of like the real world but still sigh* I have a major migraine right now.