Teleporting Dreadknights

[MaltonNecromancer]

I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but it seems a query worth raising.

A Dreadknight can be equipped with a personal teleporter. This means it can move like a Grey Knight Interceptor. Now, this obviously gives it the 30" once-per-game shunt move. Does it also mean the Dreadknight gets to move like Jump Infantry? If so, does this mean the Dreadknight loses it's MC status?

From where I'm sat, it seems the Dreadknight would move like Jump Infantry (because it's got a teleporter fitted, so it doesn't have to walk anymore, and can thus move faster and avoid terrain) while retaining it's Monstrous Creature status (because it didn't magically get any smaller or less Monstrous).

Am I seeing rules problems where there are none, or not?

[isotope99]

I think you're seeing the usual iffy GW draftsmanship on their rules. Technically, you're right it says that the unit becomes jump infantry.

My RAI conclusion is :

• Yes , they get a 12" move (the thing is stupidly expensive otherwise)
  
• No, they don't lose MC status. This is an error on GW's part

Add it to the list of FAQ candidates and ambiguous wording.

Along with:

Does the doomfist give the dreadknight S10 as this only applies to walkers in the rule book? RAI, I believe so otherwise they'd just be CC weapons.

Why would anyone buy the hammer if it does, as this costs 10 points for -1A (2 different special CC weapons) and only getting the extra stun on vehices that you're probably going to smash with 2D6 + 10 penetration anyway.

[Tynskel]

Nemesis doomfist, if it is like all other DCCW, will combine with any close combat weapon for +1 attack.

Look at the BA Librarian Dread-- the force weapon + DCCW grant +1 attack.

A reason to get the hammer is for the knock back to Initiative 1 and auto-stunning vehicles.

[Bean]

That's not accurate, Tynskel. Special Close Combat weapons only give you bonus attacks when paired with second special close combat weapons of the same type or with a non-special close combat weapon (like a bolt pistol or a chain sword).

Some special close combat weapons, like Thunder Hammers and Power Fists, don't give you a bonus attack when paired with a normal close combat weapon--only with a second special close combat weapon of the same type (i.e. two thunderhammers).

The Librarian Dreadnought in the Blood Angels codex is a specific exception to this general rule; it gets a bonus attack for having a bloodfist and a power weapon because the rules for the bloodfist specifically say that it does--not because the basic rules work that way.

A Nemesis Doomfist is clearly a special close combat weapon--it won't give the Dreadknight a bonus attack unless paired with another Nemesis Doomfist or with a normal close combat weapon (which the Dreadknight can't get).

If a Dreadknight upgrades a Doomfist to another weapon, it loses its bonus attack.

[isotope99]

Nemesis doomfist, if it is like all other DCCW, will combine with any close combat weapon for +1 attack.

Look at the BA Librarian Dread-- the force weapon + DCCW grant +1 attack.

A reason to get the hammer is for the knock back to Initiative 1 and auto-stunning vehicles.

Ah, that makes a lot more sense from a points cost perspective

[Smotku]

The Librarian Furioso moves like jump infantry when you use Wings. It doesnt lose any of its other abilities. More accuratly a demon prince or greater daemon dont lose MC status with wings either. So I dont see how the Dreadknight would lose it.

[UltramarineFan]

Nemesis doomfist, if it is like all other DCCW, will combine with any close combat weapon for +1 attack.

Look at the BA Librarian Dread-- the force weapon + DCCW grant +1 attack.

A reason to get the hammer is for the knock back to Initiative 1 and auto-stunning vehicles.

Actually the BA librarian dread is the exception not the rule, normally you need to have 2 DCCW to get the +1 attack.

[memnarch_129]

Bean and Ultramarine Fan, your reading the rules for close combat weapons on page 42 of the BRB. Dreadnought CCW use an entirely seperate set of rules for determining how they work and get extra attacks.

Pg. 73 BRB: Second Column: Small White Box:

Walkers are often armed with huge close combat weapons -hammers, wrecking balls, claws, etc. A Dreadnought close combat weapon is a power weapon and doubles the walker's Strength in close combat( up to a Maximum of 10).

If the walker suffers a weapon destroyed result and the player chooses the close combat weapon, the walker loses the bonuses conferred by the Dreadnought close combat weapon (and any other wepon built into the same arm).

If a walker armed with two or more Close Combat Weapons,(emphasis mine) it gains one bonus attack for each additional weapon over the first. If one of its additional weapons is destroyed, one bonus attack is lost.


No where in DCCW rules does it say you only get the additional attack if you have 2 DCCWs. Now yes if the DreadKnight has to use both the DCCW rules and the normal rules on page 42 then yes it wont get the +1 attack. But like Personal Teleporter ( makes the Dreadknight JI ) and the whole thing of the DreadKnight not being a walker for the doubling strength, all three of these issues are first times for any model in 40K. Never before has an upgrade CHANGED a models type, DCCWs been on a Monstrous Creature, and a DCCW and another complex weapon been on a Monstrous Creature.

A lot of ppl are thinking a lot of this is just oversight by GW. Most have already agreed the PT will be errata'd to "moves LIKE Jump Infantry", and that in the DCCW rules you simple substitue the DreadKnight Mounstrous Creature type in for where it says Walker. The issue of the DreadKnight getting the extra attack hasnt been talked about all that much. But Id say that if the DDCW is ruled to work on the DreadKnight the same way it works on any other walker then the second weapon will give the Dreadknight +1 attack. Until then just discuss it with your opponent or Tournament Organizer.

[GM Rex Nihilo]

Bean and Ultramarine Fan, your reading the rules for close combat weapons on page 42 of the BRB. Dreadnought CCW use an entirely seperate set of rules for determining how they work and get extra attacks.

Pg. 73 BRB: Second Column: Small White Box:

Walkers are often armed with huge close combat weapons -hammers, wrecking balls, claws, etc. A Dreadnought close combat weapon is a power weapon and doubles the walker's Strength in close combat( up to a Maximum of 10).

If the walker suffers a weapon destroyed result and the player chooses the close combat weapon, the walker loses the bonuses conferred by the Dreadnought close combat weapon (and any other wepon built into the same arm).

If a walker armed with two or more Close Combat Weapons,(emphasis mine) it gains one bonus attack for each additional weapon over the first. If one of its additional weapons is destroyed, one bonus attack is lost.


No where in DCCW rules does it say you only get the additional attack if you have 2 DCCWs. Now yes if the DreadKnight has to use both the DCCW rules and the normal rules on page 42 then yes it wont get the +1 attack. But like Personal Teleporter ( makes the Dreadknight JI ) and the whole thing of the DreadKnight not being a walker for the doubling strength, all three of these issues are first times for any model in 40K. Never before has an upgrade CHANGED a models type, DCCWs been on a Monstrous Creature, and a DCCW and another complex weapon been on a Monstrous Creature.

A lot of ppl are thinking a lot of this is just oversight by GW. Most have already agreed the PT will be errata'd to "moves LIKE Jump Infantry", and that in the DCCW rules you simple substitue the DreadKnight Mounstrous Creature type in for where it says Walker. The issue of the DreadKnight getting the extra attack hasnt been talked about all that much. But Id say that if the DDCW is ruled to work on the DreadKnight the same way it works on any other walker then the second weapon will give the Dreadknight +1 attack. Until then just discuss it with your opponent or Tournament Organizer.

Well said, well written! Not inflammatory, not provoking just a simple straight forward rule book based answer to calm the hype and overreactions that often happen on the Web. Thank You!!

[Bean]

Calm and reasoned, sure, but also incorrect. The rule refers to walkers, not monstrous creatures. At some point in the future, the Dreadknight might get a bonus attack for having a hammer and fist or a sword and fist (thanks to an errata) but right now it does not.

The Doomfist is not a normal close combat weapon and the Dreadknight is not a walker--it needs two Doomfists to get a bonus swing. That's what the rules say.