"Like The Wind!"

[Turner]

A Space Marine Dreadnaught assaults a 50man blob of guardsmen, who have no melta bombs, no krak grenades and basically no way of hurting the dreadnaught. After passing their moral test (with a little help from their commissar) it is the IG player's turn. Thankfully Captain Al'Rahem is on the scene with four, count em, four melta guns! Oh and two penal legion squads are also near by but nobody really pays much attention to them anyways.

So it's the shooting phase and Captain Al'Rahem attempts to issue an order to the 50man (now 40ish man) group of guardsmen,

Side note
"Orders cannot be issued to squads that are embarked in a transport vehicle, or units that have already run, made a shooting attack or have already received an order that turn (whether or not the prior order was sucessful). Unless otherwise stated, orders cannot be issued to units taht are falling back or have gone to ground."

He issues "Like The Wind!" which states "If the order is sucessfully issued, the ordered unit immediately makes a shooting attack (it may not run). When this has been resolved, the unit immediately moves D6" in a direction of your choice."

So the 50man blob of guardsmen move D6" directly away from the dreadnaught (this IG player is on fire and rolls a 6) and Al'Rahem's squad pumps four meltaguns into the dreadnaught, who is in melta range. If, for whatever reason the dice Gods frown upon this, the two penal legion squads will perform a run action and move directly towards the dreadnaught (remaining 1" away from him) to form a circle around him, if possible.


So, is this possible?

[I NoSe]

As the rules are right now as long as Al'Rahem wasn't locked in assault this was a legal move. Its weird I'll give you that but the rule for receiving orders mentions every other situation that unit could possibly be in, but leaves out assault.

[DarkLink]

No, this doesn't work. If the Dreadnought is locked in combat, it may not be shot. Nothing about the order allows you to make a shooting attack against something you couldn't normally shoot.

Edit: I'll also note that, because the guardsmen consolidate 6" towards the Dread at the beginning and end of combat, so the Dread should be completely surrounded by guardsmen. Any unit attempting to assault must be able to get into base contact with the target, so until the Dread kills off ~40 guardsmen it is effectively impossible to assualt the Dread.

Basically, the Dread is untouchable until it kills all the Guardsmen.

[wkz]

Hmmm.... my opinion:
- You can issue the order to the guardsmen.
As said, there is no restriction against that.

- The guardsmen obviously cannot shot.
Well duh, they're locked in combat

- The guardsmen unit MAY NOT move D6" due to the order.
Pg40 "Pile in" - "While a unit is locked in combat it may only make pile-in moves and may not otherwise move or shoot."

- Other units MAY NOT shoot the Dreadnought.
Thanks to the above, the Dreadnought is still BtB with someone, and thus is STILL locked in combat. You obviously cannot shoot something engaged in this way.

- The guardsmen are STILL stuck in combat with the Dreadnought.
Thanks to the above

- Captain Al'Rahem just wasted an order.
Truth.

[DarkLink]

Ohhhh, I though someone else was trying to shoot the Dreadnought.

No, that doesn't work either. You can't make shooting attacks while locked in CC. And even if you could, you still can't Run. And even if you could do both, you're still actually locked in combat so you would be forced to consolidate back into base contact.

[Hive Mind]

But Codex rules supplant Rulebook rules. I don't have C:IG or the Rulebook on me right now so I'm assuming that all the relevant info is in Turner's post... So...

RAW says that you can issue an order to a unit locked in an assault. RAW says that unit can then shoot and move d6". Codex specific rule trumps Rulebook rule.

On the facts provided, it's a good move. Of course, RAI would be different but I know how you feel about RAI DarkLink...

[wkz]

But Codex rules supplant Rulebook rules. I don't have C:IG or the Rulebook on me right now so I'm assuming that all the relevant info is in Turner's post... So...

RAW says that you can issue an order to a unit locked in an assault. RAW says that unit can then shoot and move d6". Codex specific rule trumps Rulebook rule.

On the facts provided, it's a good move. Of course, RAI would be different but I know how you feel about RAI DarkLink...

Codex rules supplant Rulebook rules, if it ACTUALLY supplant that rule specifically.


"Like The Wind!" : "If the order is sucessfully issued, the ordered unit immediately makes a shooting attack (it may not run). When this has been resolved, the unit immediately moves D6" in a direction of your choice."
So the unit gets to shoot, and it gets to move.

Guess what, a shooting attack cannot be performed in close combat. Movement other than piling in cannot be performed in close combat. Sure, you have to do those 2 things, but they're locked up, and cannot be done.



This is similar to the Astral Aim issue: Codex rules supplant Rulebook rules, and Astral Aim supplant Rulebook's LOS issues, so the unit with Astral Aim can shoot everywhere... if the unit is allowed to shoot, which Astral Aim does not supplant.

If the unit RAN, it can't shoot, so it can't use Astral Aim. Similarly, if a unit is locked in close combat, it can't shoot or move even if abilities or spells activate its movement or shooting abilities...

[DarkLink]

Right, I would agree with wkz. Were the guardsmen allowed to make shooting attacks or move, then they could do so, but I don't see anything in the order that overrides the specific CC rules.

[SeattleDV8]

agreed, the codex trumps the BRB only if there is a conflict in the rules.

In this case there is no conflict....so the codex can go **** itself.

Ahem...sorry...heh

[I NoSe]

Good save WKZ I only checked the IG book and FAQ.