Dreadknight Doomfists

[Hive Mind]

hey, you do the same thing, too.

LMAO. Sure thing champ. I mean, the rules are the same thing as your fabrication aren't they?

Doesn't the fact that you have to put words into the mouth of the rules writers while my 'interpretation' is simply repeating the rules as written tell you that you're wrong?

How about the fact that S10 is the maximum strength of anything in the game, while a Dreadknight, using your fabricated rules, would hit at S12, possibly S14. That doesn't factor in for you? How about the wording on p.6 of the Rulebook? The bit that says "no modifier may raise any characteristic above 10".

It is abundantly clear that a DDCW does not double the strength of a Monstrous Creature. Deal with it, move on.

[Tynskel]

LMAO. Sure thing champ. I mean, the rules are the same thing as your fabrication aren't they?

Doesn't the fact that you have to put words into the mouth of the rules writers while my 'interpretation' is simply repeating the rules as written tell you that you're wrong?

How about the fact that S10 is the maximum strength of anything in the game, while a Dreadknight, using your fabricated rules, would hit at S12, possibly S14. That doesn't factor in for you? How about the wording on p.6 of the Rulebook? The bit that says "no modifier may raise any characteristic above 10".

It is abundantly clear that a DDCW does not double the strength of a Monstrous Creature. Deal with it, move on.

I do not know where you come up with Str 12. Because Dreadnoughts are also Str 6. The DCCW doubles str, to a max of 10. Never did I ever say that the Dreadknight is str 12.

I suggest catching up on page 6.

No, it is abundantly clear that the Dreadknight is Str 10 with the DCCW, Str 6 with the Greatsword, Str 7 with Hammerhand and Greatsword.

[Hive Mind]

I do not know where you come up with Str 12. Because Dreadnoughts are also Str 6. The DCCW doubles str, to a max of 10. Never did I ever say that the Dreadknight is str 12.

I suggest catching up on page 6.

No, it is abundantly clear that the Dreadknight is Str 10 with the DCCW, Str 6 with the Greatsword, Str 7 with Hammerhand and Greatsword.

I did not suggest that you did say S12. I am asking if that factors into your, ahem, 'reasoning'.

I'd be right there with you, except that the rules say it doubles a walker's strength and at no point mention making the Dreadknight a walker. Until they do, what you are saying will remain a flight of fancy; a total and utter fabrication.

[bfmusashi]

Guys, I think this is devolving to the point of name calling, which resolves nothing. I would like to point out that the absurdity of my point on blowing the arms off a dreadknight was acknowledged but the underlying point ignored. It is absurd to treat a monstrous creature as a walker. If it was supposed to grant a dreadknight S10, it would say it, like every other exception to the rulebook does. It took me a while to come up with one, but behold, the Shokk Attack Gun. A weapon of unmitigated horror in 2nd ed, I was pleased to find it in the new Ork codex. Why is it important?
It's infantry mounted ordnance, something not allowed for in the rulebook. Because it was intended to be odd and an exception it has an asterisk on how it works in-game (in this case it's a heavy weapon for movement and assault). There is no asterisk for the doomfist.
The lack of an asterisk makes the doomfist entry bound by the rulebook. The rulebook binds Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons to Walkers, a type of vehicle. The rulebook does not allow for them on monstrous creatures.
Gir made a good point, if you remove the first sentence from context it can support the S10 Dreadknight. However, in context the dreadknight can not follow the rules of the DCCW, because it is not a walker.

If anyone can come up with another weapon/unit combination not allowed for in the rulebook please bring it up as I am curious.

[bfmusashi]

Also, the dreadknight is a wicked fun unit at S6 and while I don't see using them in my army (I really don't think they offer enough to ignore the reinforced aegis of the dreadnought) they really don't need S10.

[Tynskel]

I did not suggest that you did say S12. I am asking if that factors into your, ahem, 'reasoning'.

I'd be right there with you, except that the rules say it doubles a walker's strength and at no point mention making the Dreadknight a walker. Until they do, what you are saying will remain a flight of fancy; a total and utter fabrication.

no, not 'a walker' -- 'the walker' there's a difference, and that is where my interpretation stems from.

[Tynskel]

there are multiple infantry units that use Ordnance weapons now. Regimental Advisors, Chapter Masters, ect.

Considering p. 29 of the rulebooks states that infantry cannot mount them, the cannot possibly work with the rules

Right?

No.

This is why this argument is completely stupid. The argument that the Dreadknight does not get to use the DCCW rules should be consistently applied to Ordnance Weapons too.

[bfmusashi]

there are multiple infantry units that use Ordnance weapons now. Regimental Advisors, Chapter Masters, ect.

Considering p. 29 of the rulebooks states that infantry cannot mount them, the cannot possibly work with the rules

Right?

No.

This is why this argument is completely stupid. The argument that the Dreadknight does not get to use the DCCW rules should be consistently applied to Ordnance Weapons too.

It's a hell of a thing to call another's argument stupid when you can't make a case for your own, but I'll rise to this as I have access to the codexes in question.
In Codex Space Marines there's a lengthy description as to how Orbital Bombardment works. As Codex trumps Rulebook this is fine.
In Codex Imperial Guard the same rings true for the Master of Ordnance.
In Codex Grey Knights there is again a lengthy description of how Orbital Strike Relay works as an infantry activated ordnance attack.
All of these give descriptions and rules independent of the rulebook (like the shokk attack gun).
The doomfist simply refers to the rulebook, your point is moot unless you can find another item that refers only to an entry in the rulebook and then ignores it in execution. Find this and I'll totally agree that Dreadknights are S10 in close combat. Otherwise you are stuck trying to make one sentence (maybe two) out of four work on the model.

[Gir]

Well then I guess Imperial Guard Frag Grenades don't work

[bfmusashi]

You mean the Frag Grenades that work exactly like they do in the rulebook and follow all the rules of their entry?