Dreadknight Doomfists

[thecactusman17]

It also says "A Nemesis Doomfist is a dreadnought-sized powerfist"

Bam. Double strength.

[blackarmchair]

It also says "A Nemesis Doomfist is a dreadnought-sized powerfist"

Bam. Double strength.

People need to learn the difference between the fluff and the rules. For your education, here is how GW writes rules in its codecies:

Name of Rule:
Blah Blah Blah Fluff stuff Blah Blah Blah things that have no in-game effect Blah Blah Blah

(Notice the line break?) Rules Rules Rules Rules Rules Rules Rules Rules Rules Rules Rules

Anything in that first part is a fluff description and often doesn't have anything to do with the game. RAW the DK doesn't get the benefits of a doomfist, there really isn't much to discuss here.

[Suttobs]

They put Nemesis Doomfist for a reason.

I don't think it was for STR10.

There are two options , STR 10 or STR 6.

If it is STR 10, why does it have hammerhand? Just on the chance you take the Greatsword? And if you happen not to be playing Daemons I guess you have those 2 psychic powers just to say you do.

The gave it a NEMESIS doom fist, specifically so it was a nemesis weapon. Why not the other Nemesis weapons?

A sword would have made its invul 4+ in CC.
Halbred +2 Init. etc.

YMMV.

[DarkLink]

And that's why you can't use RAI to justify your argument. Some people say "well, obviously they meant for it to be str 10", while other people say what Suttobs just said. Who's right? RAI does not, and cannot, answer that question. Skip RAI and just houserule it, or wait for an FAQ.



BTW, cactusman, if the Doomfist is a power fist, then Dreadknights strike at I 1.

[AngelsofDeath]

I never thought there was a question regarding the Doomfist. It says its a Dreadnought close combat weapon (Pg 73 40K rules) which doubles its strength to 10. The only point I would think should be looked at is the fact that the Dreadknight is a "Monstrous Creature" (Pg 51 40K rules), and in being so rolls an extra D6 for armour penetration. As well as having universal rules Move Through Cover and Relentless.

[bonedale]

Why would GW reference the DCCW if it wasn't to double S? What other qualities does the DCCW have? I think hammerhand is only for the sword, and the hammer is only for the initiative reducing qualities.

I think trying to be literal about WALKER, is the same BS are pulling with the teleport changing the DK into a jump troop or whatever. I think that is what started all of this. GW won't waste time with an FAQ. The reason it says walker is in reference to the walker it is describing. Thank god GW didn't say the vehicle warp field uses the teleport pack rules from the interceptors. Because then everyone would say their land raiders become "jump infantry" and will put them into storm ravens, with a DK inside the land raider. A 40k turducken of doom. That is until you shoot it, and it will magically turn back into a vehicle so it has an armor value.

Anyone's guess, but the above to me is sensible.

[wkz]

To be honest, The Dreadknight-Doomfist rules seems to be GW's biggest Troll-job ever against the community and its big RAI-RAW debate :\

- Walker weapons on a Monster!
Precedence: DCCW always had double strength! RAI says they should have that!
Precedence breaker: It is the first time a DCCW is on a monster! RAW says they shouldn't have that! (and yes, both meanings. I'm looking HARD at you-know-who...)

- Monster having 2 weapons!
Precedence: Monsters never had 2 weapons in the past (in 4th or 5th edition)!! RAI says they should (a) either be like a Dreadnought (2 weapons for +1 attack, and thus supporting the "Dreadknight double strength" above), or (b) NOT have that +1A!
Precedence breaker: 2 weapons, fer goodness sake!! RAW says 2 weapons gets +1A due to infantry weapon-wielding rules (of which a Monsterous creature is a sub-set of) !

And my absolute Favorite:
- Doomfist description!!
Fluff: Its a Powerfist in the fluff description!! RAI says its a powerfist!!
Rules: Its a DCCW in the rules description!! RAW says its a DCCW!!

[AngelsofDeath]

I really still do not see what everyone is QQ about with the Dreadknight-Doomfist combo. Considering the rest of the codex and the high points cost, I do not see or fear anything having to do with the Dreadknight.
I do not see people taking 3 of these, at least not in a competative army list. They can be brought down pretty easy by middle of the range shooting firepower. They are monstrous and cant hide from you. And you just have to pick and choose when and if to assault them.

[Bean]

OP is right, Doomfists don't double the Dreadknight's strength. End of story.

The only gripe I have is with the OP: "x counts as y," "x is is treated as y," and "x follows the same rules as y" are three different ways of saying exactly the same thing. There is no functional distinction between those three wordings.

[Dalleron]

I fail to see how you say that doomfists don't make the DK strength 10.

A doomfist is a DCCW, which does what it says in the big rulebook. It's just rules lawyering to make it read anything else to be what you want it to be.