Deep strike and Combat squads

[Tynskel]

A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not
break down into combat squads.

Yeah, that's the kicker right there. This means that they are one whole unit until they are called from reserves. Which is a shame, because that means the unit must be separated from their dedicated transport if you want to be able to combat squad them when they enter the board.

For example:

You have a 10 man Space Marine Tactical Squad and a dedicated transport Rhino. If you reserve both the 10 man squad and the Rhino, and declare that the squad is embarked in the Rhino, when you come in from reserves, you have automatically denied yourself the ability to use Combat Squads. The unit is embarked on the vehicle, and you cannot have 2 units in one vehicle.

The only way to be able to combat squad is if you Do Not embark in reserves. However, at this point, the rhino is a separate unit for reserve rolls, and you may not have your transport when you enter (or the opposite, may not have a unit to embark when entering from reserves).

I think this is a really dumb way to play, and defeats the purpose of Combat Squads: flexibility.
This is even worse for Razorbacks, and 10 Man Terminator squads with Land Raiders.

Then think about the restriction to movement. Assuming you managed to bring in both the squad and the transport in the same reserve roll: Blood Angel 10 Man Tactical squad and Razorback enters the board. The 10 man squad combat squads.
1) You cannot use your 18" move for the razorback if you want to embark half the squad.
2) You cannot use your 12" move if you want to embark half the squad.

So, now you have lost some of your movement, and, of course, you had to come from reserves, so you have lost turns.

[bluesickboy]

Yeah, that's the kicker right there. This means that they are one whole unit until they are called from reserves. Which is a shame, because that means the unit must be separated from their dedicated transport if you want to be able to combat squad them when they enter the board.

For example:

You have a 10 man Space Marine Tactical Squad and a dedicated transport Rhino. If you reserve both the 10 man squad and the Rhino, and declare that the squad is embarked in the Rhino, when you come in from reserves, you have automatically denied yourself the ability to use Combat Squads. The unit is embarked on the vehicle, and you cannot have 2 units in one vehicle.

The only way to be able to combat squad is if you Do Not embark in reserves. However, at this point, the rhino is a separate unit for reserve rolls, and you may not have your transport when you enter (or the opposite, may not have a unit to embark when entering from reserves).

I think this is a really dumb way to play, and defeats the purpose of Combat Squads: flexibility.

A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not
break down into combat squads.

i guess im missing the part that says if your in reserve you can come in from reserves and combat squad.
this all sounds pretty cut and dry with that answer from the BA FAQ.

[Tynskel]

A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not
break down into combat squads.

i guess im missing the part that says if your in reserve you can come in from reserves and combat squad.
this all sounds pretty cut and dry with that answer from the BA FAQ.

you are missing the point:
you cannot combat squad if you have already declared the unit embarked in a transport. You cannot have 2 units in one transport.

you cannot determine whether your transport will enter at the same time as your unit if you do not embark the unit. They are separate units for reserve rolls.

if you have 10 man terminator squad with land raider, you cannot have them embarked in the land raider, and worse, your terminators are forced to walk if you want to use the dedicated transport.

The point is that combat squads, with the FAQ ruling, makes no sense when you purchase a dedicated transport.

The only transport option for reserves that combat squads works for is the Drop Pod.

[SeattleDV8]

A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not
break down into combat squads.

i guess im missing the part that says if your in reserve you can come in from reserves and combat squad.
this all sounds pretty cut and dry with that answer from the BA FAQ.

A unit placed in reserve is 'not deployed', and as so may not combat squad at that point.
Once you roll for reserves and the unit comes on, at that point you may combat squad because that is when you deploy the unit.

It's simply a matter of timing.

[Brad]

Hmmm sounds like a RAW and RAI arguement all over again.... will watch with great enthusiasm to see which wins this time....NOT!!!!!!!!!!

[wkz]

A unit placed in reserve is 'not deployed', and as so may not combat squad at that point.
Once you roll for reserves and the unit comes on, at that point you may combat squad because that is when you deploy the unit.

It's simply a matter of timing.

And:
- A unit that has been declared to come in with a transport WILL come in with the transport. So at that point they're inside said transport (because they cannot combat squad beforehand).
- At that point they can combat squad to become 2 units. However at that point... they're both inside a transport. ONE transport.

You MUST be inside the transport (because you declared it), BUT 2 units cannot be in 1 transport.

Thus: combat squadding a unit in a transport becomes "making an illegal move", and thus is not allowed. Think of it as the reserved Space Marines emphasizing speed over tactics, as they're late to the party...

... At least that's how my gaming group plays it.



Note: The only reason why combat squad works for Droppods is because (from memory) the unit is DEPLOYED only after the droppod hits the table.

Via correct but weird rules interpretation the droppod has not actually carried/transported the unit it is bought for, but rather the droppod creates a one-use, "transport-like", immediate use, 100% accuracy deepstrike deployment zone for that dedicated unit only. As the unit is being "deployed" at that very moment, it can combat-squad.

[Tynskel]

this goes along with my previous interpretation that Drop pods are more like pre-game deployment mechanics, as opposed to in-game deployment mechanics.

[wkz]

this goes along with my previous interpretation that Drop pods are more like pre-game deployment mechanics, as opposed to in-game deployment mechanics.

It is actually still in-game deployment. Just that the "deployment into a vehicle" as with any other vehicle have been shifted/changed into "deployment after vehicle has appeared on the table" for the droppod

[Tynskel]

It is actually still in-game deployment. Just that the "deployment into a vehicle" as with any other vehicle have been shifted/changed into "deployment after vehicle has appeared on the table" for the droppod

Hah, but that is exactly the difference between in-game and Pre-game deployment.

[EnglishInquisition]

Well, if this one's doing the rounds again, this is what clarifies it for me; SM faq

Q. If I have two or more special characters that exchange
the rule Combat Tactics for another one, when must I
decide which to use? Does it have to be on the army list or
can I decide before each game? (p51)
A. Decide before each game starts. You will need to let
your opponent know once the mission and deployment
type have been decided but before any units have been
deployed.

Even GW think that deployment is done in the deployment phase.