the decline of 40k

[FirstLegion]

Let's keep it civil...

[Utsujin]

Posting a picture of my mother, beached is not very nice. She has bad knees you know!

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Auretious Taak: seriously did you get kicked off Warseer and decide to join here?? take a pill, chill a little and be a lSo's your face, but we can't really discuss that here.
Be a lot more respectful ok. No one likes a loud mouthed cursing troll on here.
Be more polite and some of us actually may like you. Your off to a bad start with your language and tone.

So's your face, but we can't really discuss that here.
Great way to start by insulting someone you don't even know and has a lot more respect here than a troll looking for his name.
Finally Auretious Taak stop being a spelling **** on your first post, Don't like the fact go be a school teacher.
I have played also since 2nd ed. And with many of the changes it's either progress or it's for easier rules. Do you really want to play a 2,000 point game that takes an hour or more per players turn with every rule?
GW streamlined the game for quick games targeting younger teens as they have gullible parents willing to buy them anything to shut them up over the holidays.

For all older players here that actually have lots of old miniatures that are redundant, well GW doesn't care, they want you to go out with your hard earned money and buy all the new editions, new SC's and new codex's. Why? well there a business that's why.
Just like the new Iphones, it's new, shiny, got apps, and it does this and that, so buy it because everyone else is. That's what GW does.
Look new BA, or GK codex with all new shiny precious thingys, you have to buy it.....

So, look if you don't like the way GW does business, find a new hobby. Its called pregress. Do you think GW is going to NOT make more miniatures, codex's or upgrades? Then they may as well close the doors and sell up. They have to make money....

Finally

[Skragger]

GW Net revenue: 60 million pounds (~100,000,000 US)
PP net revenue: $4million to $5million(estimates) .

Actually, that one I beg to differ with. My GW rep for the store confirmed GW posted a profit of $24-30,000,000 USD in 2010. Not sure where you're getting 60,000,000 Pound Sterling from. (and 60M pounds is closer to 150,000,000 US. Even CAD is doing better than the us dollar)

(Quote from my GW Rep in an E-mail correspondance: "Last year Games Workshop did $24M in sales. 30% of those sales came from Ranges 2 and 3.")

[eldargal]

Actually GW has revenue of just under one hundred and thirty million pounds now, from memory, with around eighteen million pounds profit. I don't recall the exact figures and I can't be bothered checking, but its in the latest financial report which is available on GWs website (google games workshop financial reports).

The last I heard PP had a total revenue of around five million USD which is, what, three million pounds?

So to put it in perspective, GW could offer PP five times what their company is worth without going into debt if they felt it was a threat and wanted to turn it into a subsidiary. Just making the point, not saying for a moment GW would do this or PP would accept.

As to 40k, I've been playing since 2nd, and I've played some RT with my brothers, and I think 5th is the best edition to date. Others may not, subjective matters are, you know, subjective. Funny that.

[Ghost of War]

You all are missing the real reason for the decline of 40k.

It just plain and simple costs alot more than it used to cost. And it leads to this scenerio

Vets are generally older and are playing
Kids cant afford to get into the hobby as much since the costs rise, sure some can but the ratios slide..
With less kids into the hobby, that less eventual vets.. the current vets play less.. kids.. family etc etc..

The kids are the core of whats going on here.. rules be damned... codexes be damned.. ALL of that is gravy on the real problem. The hobby is becomming more and more expensive and its discouraging the new blood from joining and thusly growing the hobby.

I realize there are kids who can afford it.. they go mow lawns, their parents are rich etc etc... but those are a smaller sampling of the overall potential future player base.

The game is becomming something older guys play every now and then.

Unfortunately.

-GoW

[Skragger]

You all are missing the real reason for the decline of 40k.

It just plain and simple costs alot more than it used to cost. And it leads to this scenerio

Vets are generally older and are playing
Kids cant afford to get into the hobby as much since the costs rise, sure some can but the ratios slide..
With less kids into the hobby, that less eventual vets.. the current vets play less.. kids.. family etc etc..

The kids are the core of whats going on here.. rules be damned... codexes be damned.. ALL of that is gravy on the real problem. The hobby is becomming more and more expensive and its discouraging the new blood from joining and thusly growing the hobby.

I realize there are kids who can afford it.. they go mow lawns, their parents are rich etc etc... but those are a smaller sampling of the overall potential future player base.

The game is becomming something older guys play every now and then.

Unfortunately.

-GoW

You've smashed it right on the head my friend! That is perfectly right. One of the things I've discussed quite a bit with my GW rep is veteran vs new players. She states, and I agree, new gamers are the make and break of the business. A veteran will walk in and say "I need 1 drop pod for my army" drop $40 and walk out. A new player will roll in and say "I need an army" and drop a few hundred bucks. With the continuing price increase, getting those new, younger gamers is much more difficult.

Why would a kid drop $40 on one boxed set of 5-10 models, plus paints, glue, brushes, etc, when they can drop $4 on a new pack of magic cards?

The starter sets aren't nearly as good as they used to be either it seems, so saying "well, we've got this cool boxed set that contains everything you and your friend need to play. As long as you like playing Marines and Orks, and you don't mind splitting $100 cost for just the models and a puny rulebook and no "read dis first guide" like they used to. "

They need "army starter sets" cheap boxed set that have a HQ and maybe 1 troop choice, or maybe just 250 points worth of units that sells for maybe $40-$50, comes with a mini rulebook. Plan it so they're competative with eachother so Timmy and Johnny buy them they can a) get the armies they think are cool, and still have equal troops to get started and play fair. Then if they don't like the game they're not down a years worth of allowance, and if they like the game, they've already got an almost legal army (just add 1 troop and you're off to the races).

[wittdooley]

They need "army starter sets" cheap boxed set that have a HQ and maybe 1 troop choice, or maybe just 250 points worth of units that sells for maybe $40-$50, comes with a mini rulebook. Plan it so they're competative with eachother so Timmy and Johnny buy them they can a) get the armies they think are cool, and still have equal troops to get started and play fair. Then if they don't like the game they're not down a years worth of allowance, and if they like the game, they've already got an almost legal army (just add 1 troop and you're off to the races).

While I LOOOOOOOOOVE this idea, do you have any idea how hard it would be to get a balanced 250 point box across the board? I'm thinking it would be tough considering how different some troop choices can be. I'd love to see some folks toss out potential 250 point box ideas.

And yes, complaining about models that "no longer have rules" is silly. Any of those models you listed could be used as something else in your army quite easily.

[fuzzbuket]

just got the insta-follow email

im supriesd at taak.

i had a thought and a slight rant, now react as you will, contribute, post helpful insight, or just say my rant is ***: they all are good and it encourages thought and may cause people to think about the history of GW, taak was funny, claming to be a vet, whilst making obvious mistakes ( wulfen =/= mark of wulfen and lord solar marchius. ) as well as the fun insults.

it actually made me laugh some of the more fun quotes im in blu
So's your face, but we can't really discuss that here. ( wait has he seen me? do people stalk me cause i have a blog? or is he a regular stalker?)


TRANNIC VETERANS? I didn't know there were transexual veterans in 40k. ahh my SCIImpaster sig is 'hi im a bad speller: i may have to put that here too

I don't know what Kirby you're talking about COUGH head of GW COUGH

No idea if my swearing will be auto censored, but if not, man up and swear properly not hide behind a chunk of garbled symbols. If you're gonna rage, rage in such a way that you get warned or banned, because hey, you suck *** otherwise (not that you don't already). : yes i am ragin soo much look at all my anger, unlike you :P

HEY LETS TAKE 2 MINUTES TO RESPOND TO THIS LOAD OF HORSE **** BECAUSE YOU CAN'T BE ARSED ****ING SPELL CHECKING WHAT YOU ARE RANTING THE **** ABOUT AND SO PEOPLE WHO DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH AS THEIR PRIMARY LANGUAGE DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU ARE GOING ON ABOUT OR YOU KNOW, *****ING AND GRIPING ABOUT THE FLUFF WHEN YOUC AN'T EVEN GET THAT THE **** RIGHT?!?>@!

IT'S MARCHARIUS, LORD SOLAR, TO BE PRECISE! yes lord solar marchius, youve finially named him: woah i cant spell a fictisious name, can someone direct this chap to the dune fourms

TYRANNIC WAR VETERANS, TO BE PRECISE, AND HEY THEY WERE REPLACED WITH STERNGUARD, WHICH WORK REALLY WELL WITH THE BACKGROUND ALREADY BUT HEY YOU IGNORED THAT AND ALL THE ASSOCIATED THINGS BECAUSE LOOK THEY CHANGED THE NAME!
yes but tyrannic war vets were Ultras only and were fairly un cookie cutter, itd be like replaceing sang guard with vanguards with stormbolters and power weapons

MARK OF THE WULFEN EXSIST SO TOO DO WULFEN, LEARN YOUR CODEX RULES AND BACKGROUND BEFORE RANTING TO PEOPLE WHO JUST READ THIS AND GO FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
mark of wulfen =/= wulfen

THIS PLACE AUTO-SPELL CHECKS, WHY THE **** DID YOU NOT USE THIS? MAYBE THEN PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BOTHERED READING MORE THEN JUST THE FIRST POST. no, see here swearing isnt manly, it is infact rather childish, i used to swear a LOT IRL and have been trying to cut down, being a positive influence is a good thing if you venture outside oh and i view fourms as a convorsation, you read the first post and then a few more
good to see some constructive criticism
*HELLO BIGRED, LAUGHED AT ANY WOMEN WHO MISCARRIAGED LATELY oh your nice, im sure you wont get banned, have you ever met bigred or me? if not dont insult us. thankyou

Auretious Taak.
-fuzzbuket

but thanks to this chaps constructive criticism i will spell check

( oh this is the 2nd creep who has attacked me on BOLS a few months back i had some person trying to 'date' me aka steal emails, personal information, pedo me (they were at least 20 yrs older than me))


oh and ghosts of war that was very helpful and interesting, ive not looked at it that way before!
and @ xanadu
is the swan/whale okay i like swans and whales

[fuzzbuket]

While I LOOOOOOOOOVE this idea, do you have any idea how hard it would be to get a balanced 250 point box across the board? I'm thinking it would be tough considering how different some troop choices can be. I'd love to see some folks toss out potential 250 point box ideas.

And yes, complaining about models that "no longer have rules" is silly. Any of those models you listed could be used as something else in your army quite easily.

250pts

for 2 troops not hard but throw in that HQ and it starts to get tricky, orks and IG would have lots of stuff whilst grey knights or space marines would have only about 10-20 dudesmen :P